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How Podcasting Is Helping This Lawyer & Small Business Owners – EP. #202

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How Podcasting Is Helping This Lawyer & Small Business Owners!

You can listen to the full episode here.

How can content or a podcast help you develop your business?

Not only that, but how can you start, build, or scale your business while protecting yourself and what you are building?
Thanks, Mitch, for the crash course on Business Law and for sharing your publishing experience with us.

After over 180 episodes of The Accidental Entrepreneur, Mitch has a lot of actionable advice to share. Some of this conversation’s #GoldenBoulder were:
🔥 Why You Need To Understand Business Law! At Least The Basics…

🔥 Test, Test, Test…Then Pivot!

🔥 The Impact of Publishing For Businesses!

🔥 And Much More…

👉 Make sure to subscribe to the Content Is Profit Podcast!

Enjoy! P.S: Mitch is the Jedi Master of Business Law, so make sure to hit him up with any question you may have!

You can listen to the full episode here.

Episode Transcript

  • How Podcasting Is Helping This Lawyer & Small Business Owners!: []

    Episode 2 0 2, getting closer to a 300th episode. Really fancy. Yeah. Hey, 98 to go. Here we go. And today we bring you a really good friend. We met through our pot max family, and later he had us over on his podcast, the accidental entrepreneur that is right.
    And we had an incredible time. An incredible podcaster. I hope you're ready for some golden boulders as he'll share his experience on how podcasting has helped him build key relationships within his law practice. Not to mention that he is an incredible invaluable advisor for many entrepreneurs and small businesses.
    He's consistently helping business owners make better decisions and improve their chances of success. So if you want some legal advice, you know who to call. That is right. I feel like we're gonna have to do some disclaimer here at some point , uh, we'll we'll see all of that, but please welcome host of the accidental entrepreneur.
    Owner of BA hiker law and new college dad Eker. Hey guys, listen, I just wanna clarify. I'm not a new college dad. This is my second kid going. Oh, look at that. Let's so you're a veteran at this point, kinda get your facts straight. We're just chatting behind cameras. Right? And you were telling us all this crazy story on how you guys dropped your daughter off yesterday.
    Like, like this, you know, SUV plus the trailer and, uh, driving back at 2:00 AM. So. Thank you so much. Yeah know, no problem. I wouldn't miss, uh, seeing you guys, and I've learned that all, all different colleges do it better or worse. This one did not do it better. So this not do it better. That's awesome feedback.
    You know, so if you're that college, you know, you know what to do anyway, uh, Mitch. First of all wonderful experience we had on your show. Thank you so much for having us last week. We had such a blast. So guys, please go ahead and go follow the accidental entrepreneur. There's incredible energy, incredible value that Mitch has provide.
    And then with, with your team and, and in that interview, obviously anyways, not about us. Tell us about you Mitch. Like. How, like, tell me like a little bit of your backstory, why helping businesses, why business low and then later, like why, why publishing? Right. I think that that's like a super interesting mix.
    Uh, okay, well, we'll get to the publishing last. So, um, I I've been an entrepreneur since I was a kid. I used to have businesses during the summers and I used to, you know, make, make fishing rods and tennis rackets. And I had a detailing business through high school, which I sold for. I went to college. We had a DJ business.
    We bought from one of the, in my fraternity, there was a DJ company. The guys were graduating. So we bought the company from them. It was, uh, we changed the name actually to shut up and dance, which was kind of fun. Yes. And we used to spin, you know, in those days we actually had records vinyls kind of back now, but it was gone for a while.
    So we were spinning records at fraternity and sorority parties, you know, uh, we would go to different colleges. I was up in Cornell, so it was upstate New York. We used to drive around. And do stuff. So I sold that and then I've always been interested in, in, in, in business and, and planning and all that kind of stuff.
    So when I went to law school, I, I went to law school really because I didn't know what I didn't, I didn't know what to do after college. So I was with a buddy of mine. One night. And he is like, I think I'm going to law school. And I was like, okay, I'll go to law school too. So then two weeks later, he bailed on law school.
    He's now in the real estate business. And I decided that I would take my dying. Grandmother's wish to go to law school. That's what, by the way, that's guys, when you're Jewish and you have a grandmother, that's her dying wish is that you go to law school or medical school. so it has to, so I was not good at science, so
    So I went to medical school, I went to medical, I went to law school and, um, in law school I became interested in tax and planning and small business. And, you know, one thing led to another, I, I came out of, uh, law school and I got jobs working for some law firms, some financial planning firms. My father's been in the life insurance business for a long time.
    I went to work with life insurance companies, doing a lot of planning. And usually those guys, there's a lot of planning that goes on around the products that they sell. So I was traveling around the country, talking to different groups around the country about charitable planning and, and estate planning and business planning, all kinds of stuff.
    So it just kind of, yeah. You know, worked its way. And now 30 years later I've been, I've been practicing. So my practice now is really just a solo practice. I've had partners over the years, but solo practice, I work with, uh, you know, small business owners, helping them, you know, start. Form grow merge, bring in new partners, retire, sell, um, all that type of stuff.
    And, uh, and I still do a lot of the estate planning too. So I handle their estate planning that kind of fits within their planning, whether it's partners or business owners or brothers or family businesses. And it's all kind of fits together, but I don't, I don't go to. Uh, with very limited exception, unless I'm in handcuffs and you know, so you don't want me representing yeah, we don't want that.
    So, so Mitch, like how, how I'm, I'm curious, like we, we can talk a little bit about the, the business law, because I think you're the first person that, that we bring to the show on this topic. When we started the business about six years ago, this was probably the last thing in our minds, right? Like on our minds, we're like, we don't.
    I didn't have an idea that this even existed for, for that. Like, because we're not looking that well, my only experience with business law was, has being my class that I took in the community college that I went to. Yeah. I probably learned a lot more than you think you learned. Yeah. Who knows? I mean, the grades didn't reflect that.
    Let me tell you on, on, unfortunately, so, um, but yeah, so in here I'm like, dude, I wanna. So much more about this. Yeah. So I I'm curious, right, because now six years down the road, I we've, we've obviously we started super bootstrap. We were just in an interview and this is the, the story that we were sharing.
    Yeah. But as we increase our resources, right. Then, you know, we, we hire an accountant, then we do this and we do tax planning and XYZ things that have grown quite a bit. Right. And from, from six years ago, yeah. Now why. Is this so important for a, a business owner, right? Like a small business owner. If you're forming a partnership, obviously my partnership with, with Fonzi here, we we're 50 50.
    Right. You know, even though I do like 80% of the, no, I'm kidding. Fonzi PZI does more than I do, but uh, why is this so important? Why does small business owner has to keep an eye on this? Um, okay. And, and I'll, I'll, I'll preface my remarks in saying that I, um, I'm barred in New Jersey, right? So I, for the most part, without, with the exception of like federal tax planning, I practice in New Jersey for New Jersey business owners.
    But, but the, the answer to your question is more of a universal answer because it. It's true in all states. Okay. Yeah. If you own a business, if you're out there in commerce, you're selling something, you're providing a service. Mm-hmm you have potential liability that you can be exposed to. So operating as what we call a solo, a solo proprietorship.
    Yeah, which is you can't do that. The two of you cuz you're partners, but you could be a partnership. You don't have to be an LLC or corporation. Yeah. Exposes you to personal liability. So if you're dealing with somebody and you mess up or something, you do or sell hurts somebody, they Sue you and they Sue you personally.
    So if you have an LLC, a limited liability company and Mo. Available, I think now in every state in the country, but certainly most 98% of them, or you have a corporation, they have to Sue the corporation or the LLC. They can't Sue you personally short of like committing fraud or things like that. But if you're following the rules, yeah, they can't Sue you personally.
    Now you also should have insurance obviously should have a business owner's policy, a basic. Business owners policy. It has liability coverage and things like that. But basically what it gives you is an attorney. That's gonna defend you by the insurance company, if somebody were to, if somebody were to Sue you.
    So in, in very few instances, do I recommend anybody operate as a sole proprietor? Okay. Now maybe you're just getting started. You're toying around with your idea. You're a sole proprietor. Start out just your name. Maybe you register a name in your county or with the state, depending on how your state works.
    Very few people should really be operating as solo as a solo sole proprietor because you know, to set up an LLC in most states, it's a couple hundred bucks. You can usually do it online. Yeah, you could. I wouldn't recommend that you don't use an attorney, but if you don't, you can go to some of these services, like, you know, legal zoom, but giving me hives, just talking about it.
    but you can, and, and, you know, for surprisingly for about the same money you. Pay an attorney to do it for you. They set it up for you and you get no legal advice. So be careful about that. But there are services out there that you can do it online and not leave yourself completely exposed. So that that's the one side, the liability side.
    Right. And there are some tax advantages. Both at the state level and the federal level, depending on how you're structured, you can take an LLC and treat it like an S corporation for tax purposes. You can treat it like a partnership there's S corporations. Yeah. But that's a CPA, an accountant accounting discussion with your accountant.
    Who's located in the state in which you do business, right? Yeah. The other side of it is if you have a partner or you have multiple partners, or you have family members that you deal with putting things in writing and having agreements. is really important to the success of your business. First, it avoids problems between yeah.
    Fights between the two of you as to, you know, you tell me Fonzi does more work than you. I, well, so he's winning the game, but I get a lot of times where brothers and sisters and siblings end up in business because maybe their parents started the business. Yeah. And it's not 50 50. It was supposed to be 50 50, but now one of the brothers.
    Going out and driving his car around and getting haircuts during the week and whatever. And he's not really doing his share of the work and they have nothing in, right. And they have nothing in writing to deal with it. But you wanna have the rules set when you're still friends and everyone's getting along and this is how we deal with it.
    Yeah. And you wanna have things that say, okay, what if we don't get along? And what if we fight? How do we resolve that? Yeah, that's true too. If you're dealing with customers, you have selling things to people, you should do it in. If, if you get to the point where your business is big enough, where you're concerned, well, what happens if one of us dies or one of us becomes disabled, or one of us wants to leave the business, you should have, what's called a buy sell agreement that addresses basically four issues.
    One is if you gets sued, two is if you wanna walk away from the business, There is if you become disabled and can't work anymore, and four is if you pass away and die young prematurely. Okay. Yeah. So you deal with those things you can buy. In certain cases, you can buy life insurance if you're young between the two of you.
    So if one of you dies, you're, you're, you're not in business with your other, your, your, your brother or your friend's spouse. And she gets money to walk away. Sometimes that's not an option, but you know, it's things it's things to look at. So that's why it's really important when it comes to law to know the law and, and be set up properly.
    You also need to know the laws, how it applies to the industry in which you work, cuz you may need a license from the town or the county or the state in which you do business. You may need. To follow certain rules. If you're dealing with a consumer product or, you know, maybe you wanna protect the name, content is profit.
    So you may wanna file a trademark with the us patent and trademark office, which you can do online. These days may need an attorney. You can do it yourself, but you can get a registered mark. Yeah. Um, that you can, maybe you invented something, you know, when to get a patent. So, so the law pervades your business, whether you like it or not.
    So if you ignore it and you say, oh yeah, we're out there doing. Nine times outta 10, something happens. There's somebody who comes into your life. Who's trying to take something from you. Yeah. Or trying to hurt you, uh, financially or legally, and you're not prepared for it. So you gotta do those things fairly early on once you launch.
    And it's not a joke anymore, you should be doing, you know, fi getting your own federal tax ID number, filing a separate return for the. Yeah. And, and have it set up that way. I see Ponzis taking notes. So there's S like, so here's, he is taking notes. Wait, wait, I've taken more notes that I took in all my class law in the community.
    But here's why he is taking notes because like he's, he gets to be the creative and the fun brother, right? Like the integrator operator, like is me, is this guy, so I'm the, he got, I gotta cover my booty right here. I'm the one that's been handling all that for the last, like three years. And, and, and this is so cool.
    Like we have listeners in, in New Jersey, right? Like, so. This is so cool. So if, if this, like this applies to you, please get in contact with Mitch. I would put all the, all the links right below. If you're not in my state, I'll find you, somebody, especially down by you guys. I have a huge network in Florida, so I love it.
    I love it. And, you know, as you were explaining all this, I'm like, yep, wait, I went through that. Right. And it was, we never had really like, you know, knock on wood, a negative experience, but these are things that, as we were moving and growing as a business, like we started. To hire people. And then, you know, we're going through taxes.
    I'm like, Hey, do you have this in place? And that in place and that in place. Right. And for those that are running, maybe a fairly small business, right. That this is not a thing that you might have thought from day one. I highly recommend go look into it because what it, what happened to me was. I got presented with the thing that I had to do.
    And then this set me back operationally away from really paying attention to what I really wanted to do in the business. Right. Like I'm and I'm being completely honest. Right? Like, I, it doesn't thrill me to try to take care of all of this, but we have to do it right. It's to it's the right thing to do.
    So, uh, I wanna encourage you to take care of that early on. because you're gonna have the, you're gonna be set up to do what you live and follow your passion and, and with your business and serve more people because you are protected. Right. It's it's like that story or that, that when you're in the plane, right?
    Like, and the oxygen mask come down, right. They tell you, put your mask first and then put it to the, in the person next to you or the kid, because you gotta be okay. First before you take care of the other. So, Mitch, thank you so much for this massive crash course on, on baseline again, like no problem. That was just a beginner level.
    beginner, extra beginner level that clearly fancy missed in, in college. So, Mitch, I, I love this. And just so you know, one of the things that I wrote here was haircut joke probably cause you were talking about the haircut. I was like, clearly my brother is the one getting haircuts over here. I know. Um, but Mitch, I love this.
    Right. And it actually, I think this would. Such valuable content. You can. I feel like you can become the, the Robin hood of entrepreneurs, man. You can create all this incredible content educating people about. This about business law, right? The importance of having everything in order when you are, you know, building something that might be important to you.
    Right. Right. Yeah. And my mind actually goes to, uh, this guy that I found on TikTok that he is not a lawyer, just so you know, he's a business owner. But he has experience with this type of stuff. And he creates these videos where he just like illustrates them on, on paper and then he just records and has like, yeah.
    And has like a voiceover, a voiceover, like whiteboard animation almost. Yeah. But is drawing. Yeah, he draws, yeah. He just draws it on a piece of paper and then he, yeah. A voiceover, right? Yeah. And when I saw his videos, I was like, man, this is so cool. I mean bite size educational about things that most entrepreneurs actually do not discuss because let's be real, most people out there online they're discussing how to scale, how to sell more, right?
    Like, cause it's exactly boring thing, right. But if you can make this content right in a way that people want to consume it, they want to be educated. And the way you presented it to us is say, Hey look, there's mass. A good amount of risk. If you don't have these things cover huge, better risk. Right?
    Exactly. When people understand that, I think that's when you get interested. And again, going back to my college class, I did not see that I'm not gonna lie. That professor didn't sell business law too. Good to me. Right. I mean, I, I just went in the class. He not a practicing lawyer, a professor. So that's the problem.
    Exactly. Right. I was like, oh man, like if you would've showed me the risk of not knowing this information, I would've been way more involved. Right. I probably would've been way more interested in, in that class. So I think. I, I see you creating all this content right. For people. Yeah. And getting them all excited about it.
    Yeah. And you becoming an incredible resource for entrepreneurs. Now, that being said, you do create content, right? You have, you're the host of the, the accidental entrepreneur. And I mean, what is it? Over a hundred in the episodes. Yeah. Whole step. I do everything. Look at that. Look at that. So where did the motivation to start that podcast came from, right?
    Like why was it that you build the accidental entrepreneur? I mean, I can tell through your past, right. Tennis, racks, DJ, and all these things that you need to do. Right. How kind of like why, what the name comes about. But yeah. What motivated you to start this and what is the purpose of it? So you want the whole like dirty story and the secrets that have happened.
    Yes, of course, of course. That's OK. So, um, yeah. So as, as a lawyer, right? So I've been practicing for like 30 years and it probably took me 25 years to realize that as a lawyer, you really should market your services and get yourself out there. And now with social media and everything, it's easier to get out there, but a lot of lawyers are not good at that.
    We don't get any training. If you go to most legal websites, they are billboards on a highway that nobody's driving down and they don't do anything. And they, and when you get to the website, they don't engage you and bring you into the legal world because a lot of it's boring. So I listen to podcasts. I listen to a ton of podcasts, business, podcasts, history podcast, all kinds of really cool stuff that I found online that I kind of stumbled upon.
    And over the years, and then about two and a half years ago. I saw it, maybe it was a pat Flynn video or something else about podcasting. And I said, you know, you can start a podcast for 75 bucks. I've told this story before. So if anybody's listening and I was like, don't, you need like, like you guys don't, you need like a board and a studio.
    And like, like, like a guy holding a mic over my head and doing and all this stuff. So I was like, okay. And I partners at the time, but I figured for 75 bucks, I could do whatever I want. So I got 75 bucks. We bought like a, a really cheap like USB hub. I had a little laptop. We had a couple of these mics, they were USB mics.
    They aren't, this is their XLR, but you know, these are better mics now. And the sound was terrible. So I started doing this thing. So like you said, I said, well, what am I gonna do? I, I know this great content. Let's help people if. They're if they need to do legal things on their own, like you gotta go to court cuz you got a speeding ticket, but you're not gonna pay an attorney 1500 bucks for a $30 ticket or a $50 ticket.
    You wanna negotiate it down or you do have to Sue somebody maybe in your business and they, they owe you 1500 bucks or $2,000. It's gonna cost you more than that. To hire a lawyer for your business. Right now, there are circumstances where as a business owner, you have to have a lawyer. You can't represent the company yourself, but for the most part, usually small claims court, you can, okay.
    So I's putting all this content together. I'm scripting all this stuff and we're, we're recording it. We, I had partners at the time, so a buddy of mine listen to it and he said, I said, what do you think of the content? He goes, oh, it's really helpful. And I said, no, what do you really think of. It's totally boring.
    Nobody's gonna and I said, you sure? And he's like, yeah, it's fricking boring. It's important, but it's boring. So I said, well, that's not gonna work. So he scrapped that whole idea. And I was talking to a friend of mine he's he was my first guest. You go way back. You guys are on 2 0 2, right? So I, I recorded 180 7 today at one o'clock yes.
    Go. Let's go. I'm getting there. So this Jack Jack Killian. Oh, I got a little sound effect that Jack kill. Jack Killian was my first guest. First, first two episodes was two part. So I said, Jack, come to my office, we're gonna do this podcast. He says, what's the podcast and we're gonna record. So Jack's like in, in his eighties.
    This a couple years ago. And he tells me his whole story turns out. He's been through the forties. He was involved in starting rolling stone magazine. He ran five businesses. Dad died in the middle, there was $23 in the bank. They owned Duma. He tells the whole story. Also turns out he went to my high school now, of course, before I was born, but he went to my high school and met his wife there.
    They're still together. Yeah. Small world. So he tells this whole story. So I'm listening to his whole story and I'm like amazed at it. And I was good at it. Good at interviewing. So I said, you know, That's what I'm gonna do. We're gonna tell the story. Of entrepreneurs and business owners and people in the small business industry that bring information and make it interesting to tell and share our stories and help people get ahold of their business about writing a business plan and doing all these things legally, but make it interesting.
    So that's where it started. And then one day I was like, what am I gonna call this thing? You know, I was like, let's talk legal. I'm like, well, that's boring. So I was thinking of all these different things and then. You guys are young, but there was a movie called the accidental tourist. It was, it was starting William hurt if you heard of it.
    And I I've heard of it. Never watched it shoot. Okay. So I couldn't even tell you what the movie's about. It was a long time ago. Although I did say it and something must have popped up on Netflix and there was like the accidental launch, uh, the accidental tourist. Then they showed some other movies. I'm like.
    That's what it is, the accidental entrepreneur, because I get more people that come to me after the fact and they go, listen, I started a business like three, four months ago, five months ago, a year and a half ago, I gotta shut down. We're going out of business. We got a lease, we rented equipment. We all kinds of stuff.
    I don't know what to do. And I go to 'em and I say, well, what does your business plan say? And they go. What business I don't have a business plan and I go, that's the problem. They're going into business without a plan, totally haphazard. So I said, I'm gonna put the message out there that we're gonna help people learn from all the people that have tried and failed and succeeded and so forth to get ahold of their business and improve.
    I'm a lawyer I'm never gonna guarantee anything improve their chances of being successful. And there are. Tried and true principles for you to follow yeah. To be successful from a legal standpoint. And with regard to what you guys do from a content and marketing standpoint. Yeah. None of the lawyers do it.
    So that's the message that I am going. So when I guessed, I talk about putting things in writing and I do a lot of research on memory and how your memory works and why you never remember things properly and how the law thinks you do remember everything properly, which is a big problem. Yeah. You know, that's what I talk about.
    And the, and I enjoy podcasting. So that's become like the, the wheel, the center of my content marketing. And then I do blogging and I guessed and I speak and I put together some eBooks here and there and I'm working on a book. And so it all kind of feeds off of that, but that's kind of where I, I came from.
    And I'm not suggesting everybody should do podcasting. That would not be good for you. And. Um, but if you really wanna, if you like talking on the mic and you like all this cool equipment, it's not too expensive, although your, your board's more expensive than my, my board's only too. We'll share about the we'll show about the board in a second.
    yeah, so I have the Yamaha and, uh, but I can't do sound effects and if you enjoy that stuff, that's great. But it's something, if you're gonna do podcasting, for example, with you're a lawyer or you're you own a store or you're a, you cook or whatever. You wanna be consistent about it? You can't write, like you guys said content is profit.
    It's not because you put out one blog. Yeah. You gotta be consistent about, so you gotta do something that is something you, you can continue to do. When I was doing the podcast for law and I was writing things, it became very clear to me that in six weeks I'm gonna be outta content. Right. I, I wanna repeat what I'm doing.
    So, yep. When I hit the whole, when I hit the road with, okay, I'm gonna get guests. I I have, I don't have to do a lot of preparation. They provide the content. I am, I, I was networking at the time because of COVID and was finding guests everywhere. Now I have, um, I've hit the circuit of. PR people, you know, of, um, you know, promotional people that want to place people on podcasts.
    And I get guest suggestions, multiple guest suggestions every single day of the week. I'm sure guys do too. Oh, I doubt. Most of 'em I reject, but I do find some very interesting people and they, they have businesses or experiences, whatever, and I bring some really cool people on. To the show to talk about what they did as an entrepreneur, they got started what they're doing now and share their ideas.
    And so it's, so it's become something that like you guys are doing 200 episodes has been sustainable. I'm now trying to mix it up. I'm trying to do some series. Once I hit 200, I'm working on a, a craft brewery series, a distillery series, you know, I don't know. Maybe we'll do businesses in Nashville.
    Business is at key west, cuz I like key west. That will be so fun. Businesses. I dunno. We'll pick a town. Maybe we'll do it together and we'll do some towns down in Latin America and where you guys are from. Yeah. Is it from. Columbia, Venezuela, Venezuela. Perfect. One of the, probably most corrupt countries in the world, but perfect.
    perfect. Yeah. Yeah, I'll do for a good story. That's for sure. Yeah, exactly. So you gotta mix it up a little bit, but you gotta be able to be consistent or else you're gonna waste a lot of time. Yeah. Just just saying we have. A project that we've been talking about that I think a law vertical would be pretty good, Mitch.
    So we, yeah, we're gonna have to talk about that. Okay. Um, I love something that you mentioned, right? You said that I think I was like, after a few episodes, you're like, okay, what else am I gonna say? Am I gonna repeat myself? Right. Yeah. And we were in a very similar situation to, with content is profit episode 20 came where.
    We ran out of things to, right. What do you do next? Yeah. That's even worse because two of us, right? Yeah. So it would be like, okay, it'll be like double the episode, but like , I, I will say this and this is something that we actually learn after, right along the ride. You can craft the same message in many different ways.
    Right? Right. And a reminder that you are the only one that listens to 100% of your message. Right? So somebody let's say, we're talking about what to do with your business. If you die, right, right. Hook. I mean, you are not gonna do, but like what other people, what other people wanna do. Right, right. Uh, before.
    Yeah. I mean, did you live anything in writing? Whatever the point is, if you're dead, this podcast is made for you. Exactly. Exactly. So what, that's the amount of reach we got? We raise dead people, man. We go beyond the living. Yeah. Uh, the point is we can talk about that topic multiple times and guess what?
    Maybe somebody caught it on episode one, but somebody might escape the first 100 episodes. And when. Reference it again and talk about it again on episode, you know, 150, right. They're gonna be like, wow, this is pretty cool. Right? So sometimes it does get overwhelming the fact that it's like, oh, I'm gonna have to repeat my information.
    And you know, it happens when we are guessing on even when we get different people on the podcast, because we shared the same stories of course, over and over again. Right. Yeah. Me too. So I, I just wanted to add that in there. So people don't think they always have to be doing or saying something different.
    Right. Cause repeating your story right. Being top of mind, of course, is part of the process of, and I think you guys, it's big part of your message and, and a lot of, a lot of people don't realize this, you should be repurposing. Your content, you know, taking snippets out, whether you're doing a headliner or you're putting, you know, throwing a blog out or something on LinkedIn or whatever, just to share older episodes and bring things up.
    Yeah. I mean, whether it's a blog, I don't care what it is. You should be chopping it up and making. You know, tons of stuff out of it and you and I both, no, if you have 200 episodes, you probably never have to record another episode in your life. You could just repurpose the stuff for the next 20 years.
    Yeah. So yeah, funny story. We had a, I had a call with one of our initial business partners and in our adventure with content. Right. And we're like, Hey, we're talking about like, uh, an experience that's about to happen your mouth and, and, uh, it's like, how have you been, man? I'm like, oh, you know, I go, I go.
    Three weeks ago. Right. And we talked about this, right? I think you were the first interview of us, like coming back. Right. He was the first that one back after. And he's like, man, like really, like I thought you guys were like, still like going and, and that's the, that's the amazing perception of continuously creating and putting stuff out there.
    Right. Because even though we were completely out for about two weeks, as far as like public and, and content and creation and this. The machine kept running and the perception outside was that everything was moving forward, which it was like production wise. Right. But content wise, it was still out there.
    So I wanna encourage everybody. Right? Like, let's figure out a way to, to create that safety. Now I wanna highlight something that you said the very beginning. Sure. That I think is super important. Uh, and, and is, I love that you brought it on, you said that you were consuming podcasts, right? Yeah. And then you decided to start there.
    Right. And, and I think. that has to be highlighted big time because the content that we con that, that we consume is content that we enjoy right now. It's gonna, the, the friction level to produce that is gonna be a lot less than trying to tackle a new platform. Right. So a lot of people are there. What happens is, oh, okay.
    I gotta create content. Right. Like, okay. And then they start looking online. What to create or how to create, like, what is the shiny object? Should I be in TikTok? Should I be in this? Should I be on that? Should I write a blog? Right. And there's different steps that we have to follow can it can get overwhelming quick.
    Well, that's what I tell people. If you're a good writer and you like to write, do blogging, if you want to be on video and do some funny stuff and do little video, you go on TikTok or YouTube. Yep. Yeah. You know, whatever fits you because you're right. It's a marathon that you won't be able to run. If you don't enjoy it and you're always looking for stuff, I've gotta the point where I really don't have to look for stuff, but I'm just like you guys, I schedule stuff out.
    I have episodes recorded and ready to go out through September. Yeah. On end of September, actually. And you know, you can schedule it all. You could schedule your blog post. You can there's ways to do that, to have it come out. You don't have to be that day. I mean, you guys do live content, but you don't have to be that day posting and sending out your blog, you can schedule your newsletter, your email, you know, you're posting the whole thing.
    Yeah. Um, but yeah, man, like I, I think your, your story so powerful. Because you're also in a market where this is not common, right? Like, I don't know. Maybe it's becoming more common, but it's, it's not like we had a conversation with a local lawyer, but a law, you mean in the legal profession? Yeah. So we had a, yeah, the only ones are service companies that service lawyers and trying to reach lawyers.
    There's one guy in the Midwest. His name is his name is Mitch, actually Mitch Jackson. And he's got a podcast. So the Mitch Jackson podcast, he's the only guy I've found that. Yeah, there are probably others, but I'm not aware, you know, what, what, what I feel, uh, this, why this is so important, right? Like in the, in the, in the world that we live now, right?
    You, you have. Uh, a decision to make, right? Like if you're a business owner, there's a lot of decisions that you gotta make. Right? Like I come home and then Katie's like, Hey, what do you wanna eat? I don't know. You make the decision. Cause I made so many decisions is decision exhaustion and she, she doesn't think that's a real thing, but it is anyways.
    So to make a decision, right, we have to be educated, right? Like clearly if you're entrepreneur, like Fonzi, doesn't pay attention to business law class, that, that, that distance is gonna be way bigger. So that's where you come in because you are feeding information to get to that point, right? At the same time, you're building trust.
    You're building report because you're likable. You have the show you're being consistent. That line of people, there's gonna be people ready to buy nine months, six months, three months, you know, one month. Tomorrow. Right. And then those people are gonna start feeding through that line of education that you're creating to get to your point where you can really help 'em with their business.
    So this is why it's so important right now. If you are any kind of business service based, any kind of business, this is so important that you need to be publishing and putting your message out there. So Mitchell, you wanna say, thank you because you're the example of this and you're, you are doing it. And I'm so excited that we were able to connect.
    So, so on that topic, I'm curious on. What hasn't been the, what has been the impact of publishing and podcasting in, in your business, right? These relationships that you've managed to build? Well, um, it definitely took a while. You know, I was getting a lot of play. People were commenting who knew me and knew my networks, but now.
    Um, since I've been doing it for two and a half years, you know, the enough episodes and information has kind of passed around sharing of posts and things like that. That I, I get a lot. I, you know, I get, I get leads all the time from people I get referred, you know, they're like, well, you know, this person told me about this, cuz they heard about this and they listen to your episode or whatever.
    And it's not always. A lot of it's indirect, but you have to keep going. And, and also as part of the podcast and you should do this for any content you're putting out, I've built an email list over the years. So I have, you know, 2,500 plus on the list and I'm always adding people and trying to connect with them and have them subscribe to the newsletter, which they're more than welcome to do.
    They're gonna B hacker law.com to think pops up, I think at the beginning, but the lens right below you gotta do scroll. Exactly. And no, my, yeah, mine pops up in the, in the front. So , if. If, but you gotta do that. That's part of the whole process, right? You can't just put content out and expect people to find it.
    You wanna create a keep in touch program? There was a book I read years ago and I just recommended to a friend that the current version and they were like, oh my God, I've been looking all my life for this book. So write this down Ponzi. Um, you've read, it's called the referral of a lifetime. It's like a hundred page book.
    It's a story it's written like a parable, like a lot of these. Um, you know, um, gung-ho type of books, and it's a story about a woman that goes into a coffee shop. She's struggling with the business. She goes through this journey of meeting these five, four or five different people who all give her suggestions that how to keep in touch with your customers, with your contacts and people, and how to build a keep in touch with now, 15 years ago was hard.
    You had to send out postcards, you had to mail the people and send out. Now it's easy with email and everything, but I highly recommend the book. I don't get paid for it. I don't even know the author and. It is all about building a keep in touch program. It even has a, a sample letter in there. Like if you, if you say, well, my God, I haven't, you know, reached out to all the people I know in years.
    Yeah. There's a sample letter to say, Hey, listen, we did, we, haven't done a good job of keeping in touch with the people that are important to us, that we do business with, that we love and care about. But I, I'm making a promise to you now that that will not happen again. And I've taken the Liberty of adding you to our mailing list.
    If you wanna be removed at any time, you cannot subscribe. You know, that type of. And it's a powerful message because a lot of people miss that step, what they do is they, they create content, especially lawyers and they, they post it somewhere or they write a blog or they have an ebook or whatever, and they do repurpose it sometimes, but they're not building a list of people that are raising their hand and saying, Hey, keep in touch with me.
    You know? So people hear from me twice a week cuz of the podcast, sometimes more, some people unsubscribe, cause they're like, Mitch, I don't like to hear from you so much. I'm like, okay, . I stay top of mind. And that's really important when it comes to, you know, doing all this stuff because that's how you stay top of mind.
    You gotta stay in front of people. Absolutely. I love that word top of mind. Well, that's top of mind, three words of top of mind, but you know, the, the, I think it was like about three weeks ago, I was reading this book, um, about networking, right. And probably the phrase that stood out the most. Was kind of like that typical phrase that a lot of people, say's not what you do, but who, you know?
    Right. Always. Yep. Always. Well, in this book they added one extra piece, which was, it is not what you do, but who, you know, that knows what you do, what you do. Right. And that is so important and important. Podcasting is a great tool for that. Right? So managing, you know, actually getting to know more people and they now know what you do, plus what you're to say, you know, sharing right now, which is how do I manage that relationship after, right.
    Because that, and I think that's a very important point that a lot of people miss with podcasting, which. There's a relationship after the podcast, right. That you can leverage and not only you, but for, for the sake of, of everybody involved, right? You can give them referrals to them. They can give you referrals to you.
    Maybe there's no referrals involved, but maybe. One of the other becomes a client who knows, right. There's or they just share your episode and eventually it gets to somebody who reaches out to you. Exactly. Right. Happens. It's part of the game so much, so much upside and there's so much missed opportunity right there.
    I mean, I cannot tell you how many times we've talked to people, but they're like, how do I, how do they getting more podcasts? Right. And we. Have you asked the people that you've been on their podcast, if they got somebody else that they could introduce you to. Right. For example. And they're like, wow, I never thought of that.
    And it's like the most simple thing. Right. Right. You know, there's all kinds of guesting sites where you can yeah. Register for free. Exactly. So I, I find it, I mean, I, I love the relationship aspect of, of podcasting even. Content creation in general, especially nowadays you start seeing it, uh, is very trendy, even on, on the music side of things, all the music that's coming out, podcast collaborations.
    Yeah. And they, they have their own podcast shows and they go on these morning shows and whatever, but they're all doing collaborations is the name of the game. Whether you're gonna do YouTube, whatever collaboration. Cause now you start, I've done a lot of collaboration on other podcasters and stuff. You know, I was telling you before, before we're on with.
    I was on ES a Meis. I was on his podcast, the ERI. Yeah. And we were kind of doing a dual episode. So we both released the thing, but he said to me, and, and I knew this already, but he said to me, you know, when you do this stuff, especially podcasts, it's like magic. If you just keep doing it and you just putting out good content, you keep connecting with people.
    It all comes back. and it takes a while. It's a long game. It's not a short game. You can't do it in a month. Yeah. But you get out six months, a year, a year and a half, and you're still putting stuff out. It starts to really, really build, uh, momentum for any business. Yeah. Because people, like you say, you build rapport, you build relationships with people.
    They're listening to your voice for. Even if they don't do it for within 10 or 15 minutes, but they're doing it consistently, then they subscribe to your podcast and they get all the episodes. You know, I, I turn on the car half the time and your guy's voice jumps in, I was probably listening to a podcast and it pops in, in a minute.
    I'm sorry about that. yeah, no, mate. I, I wanna be like, I wanna bring like a real tangible example of this. Like this just happened yesterday, right? Like, um, so we have, we have a, a local relationship with a, with a studio owner, like, so he owns the studio where people go and record. In there. Right? Mm-hmm like we, where we used to have the office.
    Right. He was like next door to us almost. And then he went to a bigger space and we kept, we kept in touch. Right. He brought us on to his first episode of his own local show. And this guy has been in radio for years. He has a broadcasting company, like super awesome dude. And then. But we never like brought him like, like we offer and he's like, no, I don't think it's like my, my time or whatever.
    And then we booked a guess on, he was waiting for the time to shine. It's the time to shine. Right. and, uh, we're supposed to book, I guess, uh, Jerry, by the way, he just ignored. No, I'm kidding. Jerry's a cookie. I think I was just listening to that episode. The maybe, yeah. So, so we're supposed to go to this studio and then Gary reschedules, right.
    He's coming next week, but Gary was there and we're like, Gary, let's do the episode with you, man. Let's let's talk about podcasting. Right. And he was like, absolutely. So he jumped in and we did it in his studio. Right. So we interviewed him at his studio podcast week, incredible stuff. And, um, and then we. We send them the content he calls in and is like, Hey guys, can I have the video?
    Can I put it in, in my website? Absolutely. Let's do this collaboration. Right, right. We put him there and then he calls a couple days later. He's like, guys, I just need to say thank you. Because like the video that we created together has brought in so many calls because we were asking him things about his business.
    Right. So he's like literally active, like educational promotion slash right experience and brought all these business. Right. Good report. And then now we have a, a free pass literally to go to his studio and record. Literally, anytime we want. And, and obviously we're gonna promote the heck out of him.
    Right? Like, but these are the things that are business relationships. And now he, he serves the market that we serve. Right. So at some point, if there's somebody that needs that, right. He's gonna do it. So wanna encourage everybody, like what F saying what you're saying? Like they follow up, make sure that that communication is there and it's a, it has to be a genuine follow up to make sure that.
    You are adding value to that other person. That's one of the reasons we have a surprise for our guests after the show. So just maybe, or maybe not get a parting gift, like for those contestants contestants, I guess. You'll see. We'll see. Yeah. You have to keep, keep in eye. You, you know, your, you could use a new broadcaster that I know.
    Imagine if that'll be the person. Imagine you get to your home right after a, a long day. It comes in. You need a bigger sponsor than the BIS bros for that one come outta your pocket. Who knows? Who knows, you know? Yeah. That doesn't make financial sense. R you wanna get someone else to pay for it. Yeah. True.
    True. That is that yeah. Road, you know, giving you a shout out here, give us 12 a month. Okay. That's all we need. Cause we got 12, 12, you know, a month anyway. So I just wanted to give that. I mean, that has been so, so beneficial on so many levels. Right. And, and you practice it, you know, we've learned it along the way.
    We wish we would've known this like three years ago. Right. And I think that's, uh, that's the real, the real return on your investment is that one, um, Other than that, just like posting, you know, whatever TikTok video, I mean, look through Potm I met you guys. I've met so many friends through different events and just getting in touch with people.
    I met a guy who does certain kind of tax strategies, um, through one of the episodes he's heard it. And then he said something about LinkedIn and he turns out he lives in the town where my son goes to school. So I went, dropped him off. We had coffee. And I've referred him to people in California, all over the country.
    That's thing around. Yeah. It's all about network. I love these stories. These are amazing. Uh, Mitch. Yeah. Let, let, let's get into some, some action points in here for, okay. The entrepreneurs are listening, right. They right. I know for a fact that they are with pen and paper right now, waiting for you to. To tell them exactly what to do next.
    Right. So if you can leave them with one action point, right. And actually let's leave them with two, one. Okay. On the, on the business law side of things. Cause I know everybody needs to get, get their things in order. Yeah. And one on the podcast inside, right. Content creation side, what would they be? Okay.
    That might be a tougher question, but the, the, the legal side. Say to them, let's assume that they already have their company set up. Right. So they're already an LLC or corporation. If they're not go ahead and set one up, don't be, yeah, that's dumb. Okay. But they should make sure that they have, I would say first a business plan.
    If they don't have a written business plan, you're kind of winging it all the time. Doesn't have to be some formal thing in a binder with colors and graphs and charts, just an operational, you know, strategic guide to how you run your business, who your people are. What your market looks like, your marketing, your finances, do a business plan and use it in your business.
    If you do. And you already do that. My second thing, I would say, make sure you have your operational documents. You have an operating agreement between you and your partners, your family members, uh, customer agreement, things in writing. Don't do things on a handshake. It's really, really dangerous way to do business.
    So that's on the law side. Okay, perfect. The other thing was the podcasting. So what am I gonna say about podcasting ? Um, I mean, you, you have a hundred and what was it? 84 episodes now I think 187. Yeah, 187. So I'm, I'm pretty sure we can find something in there. Something will come. Yeah. Well, if, if you're interested in getting started in podcasting first, I think you gotta decide.
    Do you want to, you know, learn about podcasting, be a, be a producer as well as a content creator because you wanna control the content, the pro the creative process, and there are ways to do it where it's less intrusive to your life than more intru. Or, or you really just want to get on the mic and talk to people or say what you wanna say, and then go out and hire a team like yours to do the editing, do the promotion and, and get it all done.
    Or you could do somewhere in between. Probably they could have you guys do the promotion and they could do the editing. I don't know, but you gotta figure a way to do it where it's sustainable, both from a financial standpoint, it makes sense. And you can keep producing content, like, you know, and, and you can do one or two every couple of months just reuse the content.
    Like you said, keep putting it out there and yeah. And spreading around. That's probably. I love it. Biggest piece of advice. I would give people. I love the fact that you said, make sure you can keep producing the content. Right. And we often talk about the minimal viable content, which is a framework that we cannot discover kind of stumble upon as we were complicating things, right.
    We were adding so much friction to the, the first podcast that we tried to start, which at that moment it was called Bru and bros. Right. And. Because gladly, it didn't work out, honestly. Cause you were drunk all the time. That was drunk ex exactly. That, that, that would've been an issue right there, there.
    Right. I'm pretty, I'm pretty sure that would've created a lot of, you know, maybe some operational problems there we wouldn't need your help a lot, a lot sooner, Mitch. Um, but the, I love that because when you find out a process that works for you, that, you know, you can maintain for the long term. I feel like that's a huge, huge win, right?
    Because again, and you mentioned this earlier, it's a long term game game, right? If you are going to do either podcasting or you're gonna do any sort of content creation, it's a long term game, you cannot expect to put one piece of content out there and be like, okay, where's my money. Right. Is not, it doesn't work.
    Exactly. So, yeah, I, I really appreciate those tips. Um, Just so you guys know we're gonna leave maybe a cool price in the, in the description. So make sure you scroll, tap the links, follow Mitch everywhere. Mitch, where can they? I actually, I, I almost skip, uh, skip a question. Oh, I was about to call you up question.
    Yeah. Yeah. Mitch. It is is probably the most important question. The most important question. I've entire. Sure. Where would you be if you did not publish. I I, where would I be? Well, I'd still be here. but I would have no business. And I, you know, like a lot of, uh, lawyers, you'd just be, you're scrappy about it.
    You're you're reaching out to your buddies. You're going into the bar events. You're talking to people. You're hoping that you run into somebody and find business, but you need to have a it's it's part of your funnel, right? Because regular content brings in regular business. You have to have a regular stream of business.
    I would. Struggling cuz I've been there. Yes. I love it. And we have been there too. Yeah. The wake up call. Meeting with eight people. And they were like, where is your content? We were like, Ugh, go. Yeah. I mean, that's the thing, it's an epiphany. And hopefully people learn from you sooner. They don't have to go through the pain that you went through or me where I was like, how come I'm not like people aren't just knocking on my door and they need legal work all the time.
    Just thousands of lawyers out there, but they call me not because I'm the best lawyer. I am the best lawyer around. But yeah, beyond that, Yes. They, they don't call me because I'm, I'm a good, I am a good lawyer, but there's a lot of people out there just cuz they think of me or they heard about me or they listened to a podcast or they heard me on your show or they got recommended from somebody.
    You have to hold these things going on at the same time. Yeah. Yeah. That's that's I love that. And the fact that we, the reason why we ask that question is, you know, to put it in perspective for people, right? Cause sometimes they push it too long. There might. You know, some fears, some false beliefs here and there that are stopping them from starting their publishing journey.
    Yeah. And you know, the sooner they can get it started, they soon they can get things moving and into momentum is gonna be better for them. So that's a reason why we ask this question, right. Um, honestly, every single time. We we ask it is also a reminder, right. A reminder is like, wow, we need, we cannot stop.
    Right. Right. And, and hopefully for you, Mitch as well, it, it, it makes you look back and, and, you know, be proud of what you've done 187 episodes. Right. That that's absolutely amazing so much. Uh Voci. I, I, cuz you're both Louise. I, uh, I do wanna say one thing cuz the guy on my podcast at two, at one o'clock.
    brought up a point. I thought it was a really good point. And you just said something, right? I don't want people to take it that they gotta write a business plan. They gotta do this stuff as a reason for them not to, to do things. Mm-hmm right. You can't wait for all the lights to turn green ahead towards town, cuz it's not gonna, it's not true.
    It's not gonna happen. You just gotta get out there and do it. The podcast. Wasn't what it is today. Right from the get go. So you gotta start putting out content. It won't be perfect to start. Your message will change. Your branding will change, but you have to do it because preparing to do it and getting you anywhere.
    So I don't want people to take the message from me. That's well, Mitch and I need a business plan, so I better sit down, spend the next six months writing a business plan. Make sure it's perfect. Don't keep running your business and do that at the same time. Yes, absolutely. Yeah. Fell forward. I love it.
    Right. I mean, we're gonna make mistakes, this gonna be challenges and we learn along the way, but yeah, just like you mentioned, if we wait to have it perfect. 100% to launch, we we're never gonna do anything. Um, so just, just get started. You guys didn't do it either. You, your whole thing progress. Yeah. Oh yeah, absolutely.
    I mean, Bruce and bros, we try to make it as perfect as we could. I guess how many episodes, episodes of Bru and bros are out there published zero a big add zero, right? Yeah. It's they're, they're in the vault. We've mentioned them so many times that I'm sure that we're gonna get an immense amount of money at one point for somebody that's gonna buy those episodes, Netflix special to be a series.
    exactly limited. By the way, like I'm gonna put this out to the universe. We want a, of the biros and everything. Oh, you guys would be great. You got that accent and it's funny. I know. Yeah, definitely. If you need, if you need a, if you need a, you know, a guy to represent you, Hey, I'm, I'm your, let's go all you top of mind.
    Top of my, for us now, let's go. Uh, Mitch, when you sign a deal with Spotify too, I'll look at the contract for you. Let's do it. Let's Gavin. We're gonna kickstart or career . Well, you're Aker. What, uh, Mitch, where can people find you? Where can people connect with you? What what's the best way? Um, yeah, the website's fine.
    Hacker law.com. Um, I'm actually in the process of rebuilt kind of splitting off my personal brand from. From the website, but right now it's blo.com. There will eventually be Mitch biner.com, but you can follow me on follow the podcast. End me on social media, LinkedIn, Facebook, Instagram, uh, Twitter. I think we put it out there.
    Uh, yeah, probably those, I, I think I have a Pinterest to count, but I don't think I've too much outta it, so, but I'm easy to find. And if you go to the website, you can join the mailing list too. Awesome. Awesome. Thank you. So thank Mitch. So that is www du. B E I N H a K E R L a w BA hacker law. Right? Com com you got it.
    Crash. Just went crazy. Good job, man. Thank you. Thank you. I, I did crush spelling B growing up just. Throwing that out there. There you go. Well, you know, not like I was watching it in the computer as I was, no, they just have your memory for, for those missing. Like if spell fancy spelling, it's gonna be right below.
    You gotta do a scroll down, click the link right there. Easy piece technology makes it so easy guys. Absolutely. I just wanted to spell it because. As I was writing the name, I put a C in hacker. Right. Some people spell with a C and they are related to me, but it's uh, so I, I, I did, I didn't want people to make the same mistake.
    I, I do want people to find you Mitch. Right? I appreciate it. May just, we wrap up the show. Anything else that you wanna add? No, I think we've covered a lot of stuff today. I'm excited about working with you guys, and I'm excited about what people can do for podcasting and you got any legal questions, send me, you know, emails and I'm always available to chat.
    And I do zoom calls for free, you know, I'll always do a 20 minute. 30 minute free consult. Somebody wants to talk about any kind of business problems they're having or tax planning or whatever. Always available. Let's go my calendar. My calendar is on my website, I believe. Yeah. Yeah, let's do it. Guys. Go hit him up.
    Use him as a resource. He is absolutely amazing. He's gonna teach you the ways he's like bitch. You're like the, the Jedi master of business from now on it, its to put too much pressure on me or anything. Exactly. Not to put too much pressure. We talked about the new personal brand, you know, Jedi master of I can wear a storm tripper hat from that.
    Absolutely. That was the initial hook of the whole show. All right. Thank you. That full circle, baby. Full circle. Yeah, it is Friday Benjamin up since like 2:00 AM. I've been up since like 3:00 AM PCI. You slept in all there today. So with that said, thank you so much for tuning into, I got this graphic podcast.
    Go ahead. I follow the show in your favorite platform and on social media at this bro. That is right. And if today's guest AKA Mitch, the Jedi master help you move one step closer to your. Please. Don't forget to share this episode and leave a five star review. See ya. Bye guys.

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