2,153% Growth. $2,000,000,000 Valuation. 5 Years Ft. JCron (Jonathan Cronstedt)

[00:00:00] [SPEAKER_02]: If it doesn't have an offer and a deadline and a call to action, it doesn't count.

[00:00:04] [SPEAKER_00]: 2,153% Growth. 2,000,000,000,000 Valuation. 5 Years

[00:00:09] [SPEAKER_00]: Mt. JCron A direct response marketer at heart,

[00:00:12] [SPEAKER_00]: turn brand strategies responsible for growing Kajabi to be one of the leading platforms for creator-preneurs.

[00:00:19] [SPEAKER_02]: Only you as the entrepreneur know, does your product truly do what it says it should do in a way that is exciting enough that people want to talk about it.

[00:00:26] [SPEAKER_01]: You learn the principles used to go from 6 million annual recurring revenue to 100 million annual recurring revenue in just 5 years.

[00:00:35] [SPEAKER_02]: It is impossible to create desire in a marketplace. All you can do is direct that desire.

[00:00:42] [SPEAKER_01]: How to break beyond the feast and famine cycle that is stopping many creators from growth.

[00:00:48] [SPEAKER_02]: So many marketers focus on being great at marketing and sales, but they don't give any thought to the product and the product experience.

[00:00:55] [SPEAKER_00]: Big growth and great promotion doesn't happen by accident.

[00:00:58] [SPEAKER_00]: And JCron's bullseye formula is going to help you turn content into profit.

[00:01:02] [SPEAKER_02]: But I will give you the unlock that fixes the marketing burden, and that is...

[00:01:12] [SPEAKER_00]: We're extremely excited to have you on the show.

[00:01:15] [SPEAKER_00]: You know, we just listened to the incredible intro and then Fonsea has a fiery question for you.

[00:01:22] [SPEAKER_00]: So I hope you're ready. I know you're ready.

[00:01:24] [SPEAKER_02]: I don't know. I don't know.

[00:01:25] [SPEAKER_02]: First thing in the morning here, let's go.

[00:01:27] [SPEAKER_01]: I don't know if fiery, right?

[00:01:29] [SPEAKER_01]: But I think it's a good question to set the tone for content is profit.

[00:01:32] [SPEAKER_01]: So five years, 2100% growth and $2 billion valuation, right?

[00:01:40] [SPEAKER_01]: That was you, your product in Kajabi, right?

[00:01:43] [SPEAKER_01]: Like the achievement.

[00:01:45] [SPEAKER_02]: Technically, 2153% growth.

[00:01:47] [SPEAKER_02]: I mean, I don't shortchange me that 53%.

[00:01:50] [SPEAKER_02]: That's right.

[00:01:50] [SPEAKER_02]: Anyone can do 2100%.

[00:01:52] [SPEAKER_02]: It's the 53 that's...

[00:01:54] [SPEAKER_02]: That's it.

[00:01:54] [SPEAKER_01]: That is right. You know, with the language barrier, sometimes difficult to include those extra digits in there.

[00:01:59] [SPEAKER_01]: But I appreciate that, right?

[00:02:01] [SPEAKER_01]: 2153% growth.

[00:02:03] [SPEAKER_01]: So impressive numbers and you do have a formula, right?

[00:02:06] [SPEAKER_01]: Your formula, right?

[00:02:08] [SPEAKER_01]: The bullseye formula.

[00:02:10] [SPEAKER_01]: And one of the rings is promotion.

[00:02:13] [SPEAKER_01]: Obviously content falls a lot into that ring, right?

[00:02:16] [SPEAKER_01]: The promotion ring.

[00:02:17] [SPEAKER_01]: And that's where I would personally would love to dive into.

[00:02:21] [SPEAKER_01]: Like what was the role of content?

[00:02:24] [SPEAKER_01]: Or how did that promotion look like to help you achieve those incredible numbers?

[00:02:30] [SPEAKER_02]: So to your point, promotion is an area that I would say in my career,

[00:02:36] [SPEAKER_02]: that was where I would always go to hide.

[00:02:39] [SPEAKER_02]: That if there was an issue in the company or a challenge,

[00:02:42] [SPEAKER_02]: I would always go to marketing, better marketing, better campaigns,

[00:02:47] [SPEAKER_02]: funnel optimization, that's always where I would live.

[00:02:50] [SPEAKER_02]: And what's interesting to your point, content being profit,

[00:02:53] [SPEAKER_02]: what we found at Kajabi was content became the marketing in essence.

[00:02:59] [SPEAKER_02]: That if I was really to be honest about our journey at Kajabi

[00:03:02] [SPEAKER_02]: and there's a lot of versions of this story I can share,

[00:03:04] [SPEAKER_02]: we never really cracked paid acquisition well.

[00:03:09] [SPEAKER_02]: We never did it.

[00:03:10] [SPEAKER_02]: I mean, there's a story I can tell you about when we were,

[00:03:12] [SPEAKER_02]: you know, burning a million dollars a month might as well have set it on fire

[00:03:15] [SPEAKER_02]: because it would have made better videos.

[00:03:17] [SPEAKER_02]: And that is paid media for us.

[00:03:20] [SPEAKER_02]: And so what promotion began to evolve into was telling the stories of our customers

[00:03:24] [SPEAKER_02]: that when we had the Kajabi Hero program show up in our life,

[00:03:28] [SPEAKER_02]: had Tip to Kenny because he named it.

[00:03:30] [SPEAKER_02]: And seeing the Kajabi Hero program feed into our Kajabi partner program,

[00:03:35] [SPEAKER_02]: we ended up with this content based flywheel

[00:03:38] [SPEAKER_02]: that became our number one organic acquisition channel and still is today.

[00:03:42] [SPEAKER_02]: So that idea of customer stories and really being committed to their success

[00:03:47] [SPEAKER_02]: and being committed to sharing their success became the marketing engine.

[00:03:51] [SPEAKER_02]: And I would say that that was the largest brand builder.

[00:03:54] [SPEAKER_02]: That was the largest, let's call it awareness generator.

[00:03:58] [SPEAKER_02]: And to this day, it still is the largest element

[00:04:02] [SPEAKER_02]: of what is moving the machine that now is Kajabi forward versus a,

[00:04:06] [SPEAKER_02]: you know, 47 point Facebook ad hack perfectly optimized funnel.

[00:04:10] [SPEAKER_02]: We've never nailed that.

[00:04:12] [SPEAKER_01]: So I remember is I'm curious, right?

[00:04:15] [SPEAKER_01]: Because I remember seeing some of some ads that were stories from your customers, right?

[00:04:21] [SPEAKER_01]: It was very highly produced.

[00:04:22] [SPEAKER_01]: Was that effort part of the paid campaigns burning one million dollars a month?

[00:04:29] [SPEAKER_02]: Type of campaign or was that much later?

[00:04:32] [SPEAKER_02]: Now, that came much later when we we sort of for for a minute,

[00:04:36] [SPEAKER_02]: depending on what version you saw, because we actually had a version

[00:04:39] [SPEAKER_02]: where we were using television advertising, believe it or not.

[00:04:44] [SPEAKER_02]: And there was a version of it that we went super high production,

[00:04:48] [SPEAKER_02]: like, you know, full Hollywood show.

[00:04:51] [SPEAKER_02]: And it didn't really work.

[00:04:54] [SPEAKER_02]: Our CMO at the time, like, loved that side of things.

[00:04:58] [SPEAKER_02]: And so we sort of were like, well, you know, let's try it

[00:05:01] [SPEAKER_02]: because you know, Kenny and I are died in the world.

[00:05:02] [SPEAKER_02]: Direct response guys, like, if it doesn't have an offer

[00:05:05] [SPEAKER_02]: and a deadline and a call to action, it doesn't count.

[00:05:08] [SPEAKER_02]: And we, you know, we're moving into this season where we had a guy

[00:05:11] [SPEAKER_02]: who came from a lot of big brands and wanted to try that.

[00:05:15] [SPEAKER_02]: And so we tried it and it was interesting, but it was not effective.

[00:05:19] [SPEAKER_02]: And quite frankly, it was against our ethos as a company.

[00:05:23] [SPEAKER_02]: You know, one of the things Kenny and I went back and forth on the

[00:05:26] [SPEAKER_02]: the only fight we've ever had and, you know, working together

[00:05:28] [SPEAKER_02]: for on and off for 10 years was a 45 minute disagreement

[00:05:32] [SPEAKER_02]: on using stock photography versus real photography of real heroes.

[00:05:35] [SPEAKER_02]: You know, one of them super fast, super cheap.

[00:05:38] [SPEAKER_02]: Con, you know, content stuff.

[00:05:40] [SPEAKER_02]: The other one super authentic, super expensive, but real.

[00:05:43] [SPEAKER_02]: And when we went to this Hollywood level of production,

[00:05:46] [SPEAKER_02]: we had trained actors. We didn't have Punjabi heroes.

[00:05:49] [SPEAKER_02]: What we learned was telling those stories was powerful.

[00:05:52] [SPEAKER_02]: But what we learned was they were exponentially more powerful

[00:05:54] [SPEAKER_02]: when we used real people.

[00:05:56] [SPEAKER_02]: And so what we started to blend was this direct response element

[00:06:00] [SPEAKER_02]: of there always was an offer, a call to action and a deadline.

[00:06:04] [SPEAKER_02]: But it was shown more through the lens of a brand experience

[00:06:07] [SPEAKER_02]: that there was a hero that you could identify with.

[00:06:09] [SPEAKER_02]: There was a story that was worth listening to.

[00:06:11] [SPEAKER_02]: There was a point of transformation in their business.

[00:06:14] [SPEAKER_02]: It wasn't here's your eight billion dollar value stack

[00:06:17] [SPEAKER_02]: available today for only forty seven cents, and there's only seven.

[00:06:21] [SPEAKER_02]: Now six of them left.

[00:06:22] [SPEAKER_02]: We we we got rid of a lot of that, you know, Sunday, Sunday, Sunday

[00:06:26] [SPEAKER_02]: used car elements because we just never felt like that was was us.

[00:06:31] [SPEAKER_02]: And I think it's why Punjabi has been able to be in the world of marketers

[00:06:36] [SPEAKER_02]: but also be in the world of creators and be accepted involved.

[00:06:40] [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I think about my way.

[00:06:42] [SPEAKER_00]: Thank you for sharing this because a lot of the people that listen to the show

[00:06:46] [SPEAKER_00]: or that we interact here in the studio, right?

[00:06:48] [SPEAKER_00]: Like they put a lot of their energy into the production side, right?

[00:06:51] [SPEAKER_00]: They have a vision of content without that whether that's organic or paid,

[00:06:55] [SPEAKER_00]: right? And then they almost like exhaust the resources

[00:06:59] [SPEAKER_00]: before they even start the distribution of the promotion phase.

[00:07:02] [SPEAKER_00]: Right. It's like one of the things that we've been telling

[00:07:05] [SPEAKER_00]: a lot of people lately is like, look, your content is still a product

[00:07:09] [SPEAKER_00]: that needs to be marketed for that market product

[00:07:13] [SPEAKER_00]: to market your company almost right.

[00:07:17] [SPEAKER_02]: And it truly to your point.

[00:07:20] [SPEAKER_02]: And I think that you guys have like what we're looking at here today

[00:07:24] [SPEAKER_02]: to me is the perfect balance.

[00:07:26] [SPEAKER_02]: Like you look good, you sound good, but it's not like you are in a situation

[00:07:31] [SPEAKER_02]: where the editing burden is going to be huge,

[00:07:33] [SPEAKER_02]: where you're trying to do a Hollywood set of cuts and inserts

[00:07:37] [SPEAKER_02]: and cutaways and whatever.

[00:07:39] [SPEAKER_02]: Because today, authenticity is currency.

[00:07:42] [SPEAKER_02]: Like you can film on your iPhone and if you truly have something impactful,

[00:07:47] [SPEAKER_02]: it will do the job that it needs to do.

[00:07:49] [SPEAKER_02]: Whereas if you're just really produced, no one really cares

[00:07:52] [SPEAKER_02]: because today everyone is some level of production.

[00:07:56] [SPEAKER_02]: Like the iPhone has gotten so good,

[00:07:58] [SPEAKER_02]: it takes you 80 to 85 percent of the way there.

[00:08:01] [SPEAKER_02]: And there's no value in the additional 15 percent.

[00:08:04] [SPEAKER_02]: Unless you're like, try to be the next Mr. Beast.

[00:08:06] [SPEAKER_00]: Absolutely.

[00:08:07] [SPEAKER_00]: So along those lines before we have a section here, Fonsi hugs the mic.

[00:08:13] [SPEAKER_00]: So he's about to do that.

[00:08:15] [SPEAKER_00]: But before we go to that,

[00:08:16] [SPEAKER_00]: like I'm convinced marketing is obviously a constant hypothesis

[00:08:21] [SPEAKER_00]: and content is a content hypothesis of trying to find what works for you

[00:08:25] [SPEAKER_00]: from different levers, right?

[00:08:26] [SPEAKER_00]: Like from the production level to like how you create.

[00:08:29] [SPEAKER_00]: Right. Earlier, we were talking about your set and the studio

[00:08:31] [SPEAKER_00]: and you know, the flexibility to do podcast interviews, for example.

[00:08:37] [SPEAKER_00]: But in your experience with like a job, right?

[00:08:39] [SPEAKER_00]: Before you guys found that flywheel and moving forward,

[00:08:43] [SPEAKER_00]: like what was the process?

[00:08:44] [SPEAKER_00]: Like how many strategies do you guys try to get to that point where like,

[00:08:48] [SPEAKER_00]: wow, like this is actually working.

[00:08:50] [SPEAKER_00]: We can actually see the results.

[00:08:51] [SPEAKER_00]: We can drive, you know, the company can drive on this one strategy.

[00:08:56] [SPEAKER_02]: So we fucked up countless strategies along the way.

[00:08:59] [SPEAKER_02]: I mean, like it really it was one of those things

[00:09:02] [SPEAKER_02]: where as we look back on it and when you look back on it,

[00:09:05] [SPEAKER_02]: you're like, wow, why didn't we know better?

[00:09:07] [SPEAKER_02]: But in all fairness, when you're in that fog,

[00:09:10] [SPEAKER_02]: when you're walking through that abyss of scaling

[00:09:12] [SPEAKER_02]: and you're not necessarily sure when it gets easier,

[00:09:15] [SPEAKER_02]: you don't know when you're in the moment.

[00:09:17] [SPEAKER_02]: But looking back now, it all makes sense.

[00:09:19] [SPEAKER_02]: And so if you think about it, the way that Kajabi came to be

[00:09:23] [SPEAKER_02]: was and this is where in my book, which I hate saying that,

[00:09:27] [SPEAKER_02]: it sounds so douchey to say in my book, but in my book,

[00:09:29] [SPEAKER_02]: it's meant to be this progression of purpose, then profit,

[00:09:35] [SPEAKER_02]: then product because without those three, you don't have a business.

[00:09:38] [SPEAKER_02]: And then the amplifiers of those three are prestige, promotion,

[00:09:42] [SPEAKER_02]: persuasion and people, you know, your customer experience,

[00:09:45] [SPEAKER_02]: your marketing, your sales and the people that drive those systems.

[00:09:48] [SPEAKER_02]: The reason that that takes place in that order

[00:09:51] [SPEAKER_02]: is because we watched Kajabi be carried and then catapulted

[00:09:56] [SPEAKER_02]: by product, product, market fit and customer experience.

[00:10:00] [SPEAKER_02]: And we had nailed those so well that marketing and sales

[00:10:04] [SPEAKER_02]: and even the people we hired were amplifiers

[00:10:08] [SPEAKER_02]: that were much easier to gain a benefit from

[00:10:10] [SPEAKER_02]: because we weren't dependent on that.

[00:10:12] [SPEAKER_02]: So I feel like so many marketers focus on being great at marketing and sales,

[00:10:17] [SPEAKER_02]: but they don't give any thought to the product

[00:10:20] [SPEAKER_02]: and the product experience.

[00:10:21] [SPEAKER_02]: And what that results in is you don't have a business,

[00:10:23] [SPEAKER_02]: you just have an offer.

[00:10:24] [SPEAKER_02]: And if you have an offer and you try to scale an offer,

[00:10:27] [SPEAKER_02]: you might turn it into a business

[00:10:28] [SPEAKER_02]: and then the overhead will eat you alive.

[00:10:30] [SPEAKER_02]: So as you look at the journey of Kajabi

[00:10:32] [SPEAKER_02]: and going back to that time that we lit a million dollars a month on fire,

[00:10:35] [SPEAKER_02]: we had this marketing team.

[00:10:37] [SPEAKER_02]: We were really excited.

[00:10:38] [SPEAKER_02]: We were running some paid ads.

[00:10:39] [SPEAKER_02]: We were building campaigns.

[00:10:40] [SPEAKER_02]: We're like, man, we've got this.

[00:10:42] [SPEAKER_02]: And the team keeps coming in with these attribution reports

[00:10:44] [SPEAKER_02]: from a variety of attribution, you know, analytics platforms.

[00:10:47] [SPEAKER_02]: It's like we're killing it.

[00:10:48] [SPEAKER_02]: Look at our return on ad spend.

[00:10:50] [SPEAKER_02]: And Kenny and I were like,

[00:10:52] [SPEAKER_02]: Oh, I don't know.

[00:10:54] [SPEAKER_02]: It just doesn't doesn't feel right.

[00:10:57] [SPEAKER_02]: And like as bootstrapped entrepreneurs,

[00:10:58] [SPEAKER_02]: you're living in the finances.

[00:11:01] [SPEAKER_02]: So it's sort of like, you know, like you get this sense of like,

[00:11:05] [SPEAKER_02]: I don't think it's working that way.

[00:11:06] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah. So we just told the team to turn all the ads off.

[00:11:09] [SPEAKER_02]: And the team's like, what do you mean?

[00:11:10] [SPEAKER_02]: Turn all the ads off?

[00:11:11] [SPEAKER_02]: Like we're growing whatever.

[00:11:12] [SPEAKER_02]: It's like, well, guys, we're bootstrapped.

[00:11:14] [SPEAKER_02]: Nobody, you know, no one has a gun to our head.

[00:11:16] [SPEAKER_02]: If we turn them off and they were working, turn them back on.

[00:11:19] [SPEAKER_02]: So we literally turned them off

[00:11:21] [SPEAKER_02]: and the business grew at the exact same rate

[00:11:23] [SPEAKER_02]: with a million dollars less in paid ad spend.

[00:11:25] [SPEAKER_02]: And it's like, well, number one,

[00:11:26] [SPEAKER_02]: we should save that million because every million helps.

[00:11:29] [SPEAKER_02]: And number two, we should probably figure out

[00:11:31] [SPEAKER_02]: what's really driving this.

[00:11:32] [SPEAKER_02]: And what we found was that there was this inherent virality

[00:11:36] [SPEAKER_02]: and network effect to a product

[00:11:39] [SPEAKER_02]: where a product was teaching something.

[00:11:42] [SPEAKER_02]: But everyone who was learning something

[00:11:45] [SPEAKER_02]: was some degree interested in potentially teaching something themselves.

[00:11:48] [SPEAKER_02]: Because when you see before you I'm learning online,

[00:11:51] [SPEAKER_02]: you all of a sudden realize, well, well, I also know stuff

[00:11:54] [SPEAKER_02]: and I also would like a business that I really care about.

[00:11:56] [SPEAKER_02]: So that flywheel was one that we discovered

[00:11:59] [SPEAKER_02]: that was driving the company.

[00:12:01] [SPEAKER_02]: And then we sort of leaned into that and doubled down

[00:12:03] [SPEAKER_02]: on the hero program on the partner program.

[00:12:06] [SPEAKER_02]: And that became another flywheel.

[00:12:08] [SPEAKER_02]: And then being in business for over a decade

[00:12:10] [SPEAKER_02]: and having that level of brand awareness in the space

[00:12:12] [SPEAKER_02]: became another flywheel and seeing enough success stories

[00:12:16] [SPEAKER_02]: created on the platform that then became huge names.

[00:12:19] [SPEAKER_02]: You know, people like Brendan Brashard,

[00:12:20] [SPEAKER_02]: people like Amy Porterfield, people like, you know, Frank Kern,

[00:12:23] [SPEAKER_02]: like all of these people that were using the platform.

[00:12:25] [SPEAKER_02]: Well, that became another flywheel.

[00:12:27] [SPEAKER_02]: And so we didn't necessarily sit down on day one

[00:12:31] [SPEAKER_02]: and like, OK, we are building these flywheels.

[00:12:34] [SPEAKER_02]: It sort of happened in a way where it's like,

[00:12:37] [SPEAKER_02]: oh, you know, that that's working.

[00:12:39] [SPEAKER_02]: Let's double down there.

[00:12:40] [SPEAKER_02]: Well, it's working over here.

[00:12:41] [SPEAKER_02]: Let's double down there.

[00:12:42] [SPEAKER_02]: So kind of an iterative process of discovery.

[00:12:45] [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, that's very exciting.

[00:12:46] [SPEAKER_00]: And I have a little story where we were probably a testament

[00:12:50] [SPEAKER_00]: to that period where, you know, five years ago,

[00:12:53] [SPEAKER_00]: I think we started helping local businesses

[00:12:55] [SPEAKER_00]: and we helped this incredible dietician

[00:12:57] [SPEAKER_00]: that she had multiple courses, multiple things.

[00:13:00] [SPEAKER_00]: And I remember like we ended up reshooting the entire thing

[00:13:03] [SPEAKER_00]: and she was hosting it in Kajabi.

[00:13:05] [SPEAKER_00]: And I think to me, that was my first experience

[00:13:07] [SPEAKER_00]: with your product at the time.

[00:13:08] [SPEAKER_00]: And that thought came to mind.

[00:13:10] [SPEAKER_00]: And I'm like, this is so cool that Sammy can take her message

[00:13:13] [SPEAKER_00]: and help so many people.

[00:13:15] [SPEAKER_00]: And that ignited something inside of our entrepreneurial mind

[00:13:18] [SPEAKER_00]: to be like, that's where we want to go.

[00:13:20] [SPEAKER_00]: That's where we want to inspire.

[00:13:21] [SPEAKER_00]: And that link of like that, that feeling with the product

[00:13:26] [SPEAKER_00]: is so important because to this day,

[00:13:28] [SPEAKER_00]: it is still a relevant platform in our minds

[00:13:31] [SPEAKER_00]: when we make these decisions, right?

[00:13:33] [SPEAKER_00]: And and that bond, I think a lot of products are ignoring,

[00:13:37] [SPEAKER_00]: in a sense, to it's like, OK,

[00:13:39] [SPEAKER_00]: is Mark is getting our product better

[00:13:42] [SPEAKER_00]: to the point that people adore it.

[00:13:45] [SPEAKER_00]: Like that's that has to have so much more value

[00:13:47] [SPEAKER_00]: than any other campaign that we can put out there

[00:13:50] [SPEAKER_00]: to to grab cold traffic, for example.

[00:13:52] [SPEAKER_00]: So we're we're we're testimonial to like what you guys did

[00:13:56] [SPEAKER_00]: because it was so exciting.

[00:13:58] [SPEAKER_02]: I appreciate that.

[00:13:59] [SPEAKER_02]: And I think what what you just said,

[00:14:01] [SPEAKER_02]: if I were to tease out a couple of nuances

[00:14:03] [SPEAKER_02]: for everybody listening is number one,

[00:14:05] [SPEAKER_02]: you talked about that moment when what you saw

[00:14:10] [SPEAKER_02]: became possible in your mind, that Roger Bannister

[00:14:13] [SPEAKER_02]: four minute mile moment where nobody ran a four minute mile.

[00:14:16] [SPEAKER_02]: Everyone thought it was impossible until somebody did.

[00:14:18] [SPEAKER_02]: And then the next year, 12 people ran under a four minute mile.

[00:14:21] [SPEAKER_02]: And everyone thinks, well, business has to look this way

[00:14:24] [SPEAKER_02]: and profit has to be gotten this way

[00:14:26] [SPEAKER_02]: until you see someone doing it totally differently.

[00:14:28] [SPEAKER_02]: And you're like, oh, well, I didn't know I could do it that way.

[00:14:31] [SPEAKER_02]: I'm going to try it. Yeah.

[00:14:32] [SPEAKER_02]: So that's been a huge joy in this discovery process for us

[00:14:36] [SPEAKER_02]: and meeting the people that have started businesses on Kajabi

[00:14:39] [SPEAKER_02]: and even seeing businesses that prior to this digital revolution

[00:14:42] [SPEAKER_02]: wouldn't have been businesses.

[00:14:44] [SPEAKER_02]: Things as esoteric is like core ab exercises for horses

[00:14:48] [SPEAKER_02]: that do dressage, like as if dressage the dancing horses

[00:14:51] [SPEAKER_02]: wasn't specific enough, we're going to build a business

[00:14:54] [SPEAKER_02]: within that universe.

[00:14:56] [SPEAKER_02]: And so those are the exciting things.

[00:14:58] [SPEAKER_02]: But what I love about the focus of your podcast

[00:15:00] [SPEAKER_02]: and really teaching people about the role that content can play

[00:15:03] [SPEAKER_02]: as kind of a keystone habit in the business

[00:15:06] [SPEAKER_02]: that unlocks multiple areas.

[00:15:08] [SPEAKER_02]: I feel like the marketing community does such a disservice

[00:15:11] [SPEAKER_02]: not purposefully, but accidentally, which is you always feel

[00:15:15] [SPEAKER_02]: like you're not doing the current thing.

[00:15:18] [SPEAKER_02]: And if you're not doing the current thing,

[00:15:20] [SPEAKER_02]: you're not doing the right thing when in reality,

[00:15:22] [SPEAKER_02]: all of the things work.

[00:15:24] [SPEAKER_02]: Like one of my favorite quotes is when Bruce said,

[00:15:26] [SPEAKER_02]: I don't fear the man that knows 10,000 kicks.

[00:15:28] [SPEAKER_02]: I fear the man whose practice one kick 10,000 times.

[00:15:31] [SPEAKER_02]: And whether you're listening to this and it's like you're an email

[00:15:34] [SPEAKER_02]: person or you're a video person or a blog person or you're a social media person,

[00:15:38] [SPEAKER_02]: like whatever channel you've chosen,

[00:15:41] [SPEAKER_02]: mastering that channel will bear the most fruit.

[00:15:44] [SPEAKER_02]: Trying to master all of them at once and driving yourself crazy,

[00:15:47] [SPEAKER_02]: just switching lanes all the time is a recipe for not only disaster,

[00:15:51] [SPEAKER_02]: but to just have a real soul sucking journey of never feeling accomplishment.

[00:15:56] [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, yeah, I love that.

[00:15:57] [SPEAKER_01]: I love that message that you share,

[00:15:59] [SPEAKER_01]: rather like all of the things work because we've seen it.

[00:16:03] [SPEAKER_01]: There's so many fear based, car city based messages out there

[00:16:07] [SPEAKER_01]: that people used to promote whatever solution it is that they're selling.

[00:16:11] [SPEAKER_01]: It's like webinars are dead or this is dead.

[00:16:14] [SPEAKER_01]: You know, and then you scroll for a minute and you see another

[00:16:18] [SPEAKER_01]: out that is like webinars away to go and you're like, what is it?

[00:16:20] [SPEAKER_01]: Which one is it?

[00:16:22] [SPEAKER_01]: Right.

[00:16:22] [SPEAKER_01]: But at the end of the day, it all works.

[00:16:24] [SPEAKER_01]: And I think personally most people,

[00:16:26] [SPEAKER_01]: you know, and I'm one of those.

[00:16:28] [SPEAKER_01]: I've been one of those, you know, that jump from one thing to the other one.

[00:16:32] [SPEAKER_01]: And that lack of consistency, right?

[00:16:35] [SPEAKER_01]: Go to the quote that you shared.

[00:16:37] [SPEAKER_02]: But that right there, though, Luis, that is a valuable insight.

[00:16:41] [SPEAKER_02]: And it's one that I share because what I have now been in business

[00:16:45] [SPEAKER_02]: long enough to realize is when I'm switching or when I'm jumping

[00:16:50] [SPEAKER_02]: or when I'm looking for one of those,

[00:16:53] [SPEAKER_02]: I now know that that is an indicator that there is work I need to do

[00:16:57] [SPEAKER_02]: somewhere else that I don't want to do either because it's hard

[00:17:01] [SPEAKER_02]: or because I don't want to admit it.

[00:17:03] [SPEAKER_02]: Like whenever I was looking for another, you know, crack hit of a marketing strategy,

[00:17:09] [SPEAKER_02]: it normally meant that there were deficiencies in the product

[00:17:12] [SPEAKER_02]: that were hard to fix.

[00:17:13] [SPEAKER_02]: And so I needed to go somewhere that was easier to drive results.

[00:17:17] [SPEAKER_02]: But the real value isn't going into those areas that are hard.

[00:17:22] [SPEAKER_02]: Like we as marketers, we keep looking for new ways to market.

[00:17:25] [SPEAKER_02]: But we rarely ask is our product truly transformational?

[00:17:29] [SPEAKER_02]: Does our product have that value skew built into it

[00:17:32] [SPEAKER_02]: that has a benevolent flywheel created because it's difficult?

[00:17:36] [SPEAKER_02]: Or, you know, we never go into our customer experience

[00:17:38] [SPEAKER_02]: because that's hard.

[00:17:41] [SPEAKER_02]: And, you know, it means you got to dive back into product and back into experience.

[00:17:44] [SPEAKER_02]: And that's why in the billion dollar bullseye there's this order of operations

[00:17:49] [SPEAKER_02]: because if you don't go in that order, you put an undue burden

[00:17:53] [SPEAKER_02]: or an undue reliance on everything.

[00:17:56] [SPEAKER_02]: So it's like if you've got a flawed product, well, now your

[00:18:01] [SPEAKER_02]: prestige, your customer experience is going to be more difficult

[00:18:04] [SPEAKER_02]: because all your customer service reps are going to need to support

[00:18:06] [SPEAKER_02]: something that doesn't do what it's supposed to do.

[00:18:08] [SPEAKER_02]: Your marketing and promotion is going to have to be much more

[00:18:11] [SPEAKER_02]: hypey than it should have been because the product isn't that great.

[00:18:14] [SPEAKER_02]: Your sales team is going to have to close even harder

[00:18:16] [SPEAKER_02]: because again, the marketing is hypey or the customer experience is non-existent

[00:18:20] [SPEAKER_02]: because the product isn't that great.

[00:18:22] [SPEAKER_02]: And the people that you hired run all of these systems

[00:18:24] [SPEAKER_02]: are going to churn out of the organization faster

[00:18:26] [SPEAKER_02]: because every single role is frustrating and harder than it's supposed to be.

[00:18:30] [SPEAKER_02]: So you end up with this one decision, this one inflection point of,

[00:18:34] [SPEAKER_02]: you know, I'm not going to work on the product, even though I know I should.

[00:18:37] [SPEAKER_02]: I'm going to build a marketing campaign.

[00:18:38] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah. And then you've got all of these ripple effects

[00:18:41] [SPEAKER_02]: that now you will carry into the business.

[00:18:44] [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah. Yeah.

[00:18:44] [SPEAKER_02]: Hi, Morgan.

[00:18:46] [SPEAKER_02]: Hey, Morgan.

[00:18:47] [SPEAKER_02]: Sorry, my daughter was knocking on my little window here just like,

[00:18:50] [SPEAKER_02]: hey, dad, you look so tired.

[00:18:51] [SPEAKER_02]: I told her I was going to record a podcast.

[00:18:53] [SPEAKER_02]: Of course, that's the number one way she's going to want to come in.

[00:18:56] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah. Why can't I come in right now?

[00:18:58] [SPEAKER_02]: Exactly.

[00:18:59] [SPEAKER_01]: Well, make sure we get a clip this moment and make sure everybody

[00:19:02] [SPEAKER_01]: just put in the comments.

[00:19:03] [SPEAKER_01]: Hey, Morgan.

[00:19:06] [SPEAKER_00]: Before you go there, I remember it like what you said recently.

[00:19:09] [SPEAKER_00]: I mean, the last couple of years, there's two big companies in the space

[00:19:12] [SPEAKER_00]: right who should not be named at the moment, but we all know they both handle

[00:19:15] [SPEAKER_00]: funnels and, you know, we grew up in one of those communities.

[00:19:20] [SPEAKER_00]: And because of the product, you know, they overpromise at one point, I think

[00:19:24] [SPEAKER_00]: in one of the events, a lot of people kind of came in, you know,

[00:19:26] [SPEAKER_00]: flooding that because of past successes probably.

[00:19:29] [SPEAKER_00]: But then the product didn't deliver for a year or two.

[00:19:32] [SPEAKER_00]: And there was a massive exit in that platform for people migrating

[00:19:36] [SPEAKER_00]: to other platforms, right?

[00:19:38] [SPEAKER_00]: And I think that's a perfect example.

[00:19:39] [SPEAKER_00]: And, you know, if you're listening to you in the direct response

[00:19:41] [SPEAKER_00]: marketing world, you probably know what those two companies are.

[00:19:45] [SPEAKER_00]: But that's a perfect example of like, OK, if we let go of the product, right?

[00:19:48] [SPEAKER_00]: If we make these these promises, right?

[00:19:50] [SPEAKER_00]: And we don't deliver on on that.

[00:19:54] [SPEAKER_00]: Doesn't matter how big the marketing, you know, or how good your marketing is,

[00:19:58] [SPEAKER_00]: you're still going to struggle to to maintain and retain and hopefully

[00:20:02] [SPEAKER_00]: help your customers at the end of the day, which is so I thank you

[00:20:05] [SPEAKER_00]: for extracting that from your personal story and be like, OK, can we refocus

[00:20:09] [SPEAKER_00]: on, you know, what we're selling?

[00:20:11] [SPEAKER_00]: How are we helping people?

[00:20:12] [SPEAKER_00]: How are they winning?

[00:20:13] [SPEAKER_00]: Because that's going to ultimately be that base to continue to build

[00:20:17] [SPEAKER_00]: on whatever strategy because it all worked like you said, like we had

[00:20:20] [SPEAKER_00]: a couple of people come into the studio yesterday and they're like,

[00:20:22] [SPEAKER_00]: this is number one thing I got to do.

[00:20:24] [SPEAKER_00]: Like, what have you guys seen that worked?

[00:20:25] [SPEAKER_00]: And we're like, well, we've had over 500 incredible people in the show

[00:20:28] [SPEAKER_00]: and every single one of them has a slightly different strategy

[00:20:31] [SPEAKER_00]: and they all work according to them.

[00:20:32] [SPEAKER_00]: So it depends, right?

[00:20:34] [SPEAKER_00]: And then I think people get like maybe unmotivated

[00:20:37] [SPEAKER_00]: because they're like switching for that.

[00:20:39] [SPEAKER_00]: And they're trying to find that golden goose.

[00:20:42] [SPEAKER_00]: But I think that golden goose is your product,

[00:20:44] [SPEAKER_00]: your like the success that your customers are having.

[00:20:48] [SPEAKER_02]: To talk about the customers and the success that they're having

[00:20:51] [SPEAKER_02]: and to also talk about the other companies that are in the space.

[00:20:53] [SPEAKER_02]: And, you know, I know all of them.

[00:20:55] [SPEAKER_02]: I know the founders of them on a personal level

[00:20:56] [SPEAKER_02]: and I have a tremendous amount of respect for all of the companies

[00:20:59] [SPEAKER_02]: that are working to equip entrepreneurs for success.

[00:21:03] [SPEAKER_02]: You know, Kajabi, we've always come from the belief

[00:21:05] [SPEAKER_02]: that a rising tide raises all ships.

[00:21:08] [SPEAKER_02]: That the more people that are coming into this universe

[00:21:10] [SPEAKER_02]: using the tools and building businesses to care about,

[00:21:13] [SPEAKER_02]: the better it will be for everyone.

[00:21:15] [SPEAKER_02]: So we don't necessarily care where somebody starts

[00:21:19] [SPEAKER_02]: because in a weird way, we believe all of them

[00:21:22] [SPEAKER_02]: are just front doors that will eventually

[00:21:23] [SPEAKER_02]: lead you to Kajabi anyway.

[00:21:26] [SPEAKER_02]: And the reason for that is because we have always chosen

[00:21:29] [SPEAKER_02]: a very different perspective in the marketplace.

[00:21:31] [SPEAKER_02]: We want to say success is possible, but it takes work.

[00:21:35] [SPEAKER_02]: And when you're ready, we're ready for you.

[00:21:38] [SPEAKER_02]: You're not going to see Kajabi run a campaign

[00:21:40] [SPEAKER_02]: that talks about effortless overnight success

[00:21:43] [SPEAKER_02]: or just model something that's successful

[00:21:46] [SPEAKER_02]: in a different industry, rip it off.

[00:21:48] [SPEAKER_02]: Like that's not our branding or our message

[00:21:50] [SPEAKER_02]: because we don't actually believe it's true.

[00:21:53] [SPEAKER_02]: Like the world doesn't need more copycat,

[00:21:56] [SPEAKER_02]: undifferentiated stuff.

[00:21:57] [SPEAKER_02]: And in all sincerity, the marketing community

[00:22:00] [SPEAKER_02]: going back to that I think in a lot of ways

[00:22:03] [SPEAKER_02]: does a disservice by making it all about the marketing

[00:22:07] [SPEAKER_02]: and all about the selling and not about the product.

[00:22:11] [SPEAKER_02]: That if you have a company that is literally telling you

[00:22:13] [SPEAKER_02]: all that matters is how you market and sell,

[00:22:16] [SPEAKER_02]: I mean, you've already missed the single greatest

[00:22:19] [SPEAKER_02]: lever in your business, which is the product

[00:22:21] [SPEAKER_02]: you are offering and the experience within that product.

[00:22:24] [SPEAKER_02]: And it's one of those things where I've met countless entrepreneurs

[00:22:27] [SPEAKER_02]: where they're like, oh, I don't use Kajabi

[00:22:29] [SPEAKER_02]: because I can't split test 37 variables.

[00:22:32] [SPEAKER_02]: So I'm like, oh, well how many things have you sold online?

[00:22:34] [SPEAKER_02]: Well, I haven't sold them yet.

[00:22:35] [SPEAKER_02]: Oh yeah, because you're still trying to come up

[00:22:37] [SPEAKER_02]: with 37 variables.

[00:22:38] [SPEAKER_02]: Like if you have a message that actually resonates,

[00:22:40] [SPEAKER_02]: you don't need to split test at that level.

[00:22:43] [SPEAKER_02]: And Seth Godin said it best.

[00:22:44] [SPEAKER_02]: He's like, if you split test enough,

[00:22:46] [SPEAKER_02]: you're just going to end up with a porn site.

[00:22:48] [SPEAKER_02]: So there's a lot of these areas in marketing

[00:22:50] [SPEAKER_02]: where there might be a gain, but then it overcorrects

[00:22:54] [SPEAKER_02]: into this focus on the tactics and not on the customer.

[00:22:58] [SPEAKER_02]: And in Kajabi, the customer is our sole focus at every point,

[00:23:02] [SPEAKER_02]: at every turn.

[00:23:03] [SPEAKER_02]: And the platform today just crossed over a couple of months

[00:23:06] [SPEAKER_02]: ago actually crossed over $7 billion

[00:23:09] [SPEAKER_02]: in gross merchandise volume.

[00:23:11] [SPEAKER_02]: So that's $7 billion sold on our platform,

[00:23:14] [SPEAKER_02]: not even including what the previous iteration

[00:23:17] [SPEAKER_02]: for the first five years of Kajabi Classic did.

[00:23:20] [SPEAKER_02]: And it's because we have customers

[00:23:22] [SPEAKER_02]: that are building real businesses.

[00:23:24] [SPEAKER_02]: This is not a, I'm going to just drop ship a product.

[00:23:28] [SPEAKER_02]: Like, I mean, if that's you, great,

[00:23:30] [SPEAKER_02]: but that's not what Kajabi is for.

[00:23:31] [SPEAKER_02]: Kajabi is for people that are truly passionate

[00:23:34] [SPEAKER_02]: about knowledge they have that they want to share

[00:23:36] [SPEAKER_02]: with the world and it's a business that matters to them.

[00:23:38] [SPEAKER_02]: Not just a money chase kind of thing.

[00:23:41] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, amazing.

[00:23:43] [SPEAKER_01]: What you just mentioned took me for a little bit

[00:23:46] [SPEAKER_01]: of a throwback, right?

[00:23:47] [SPEAKER_01]: A little bit of, I feel like imprinting

[00:23:49] [SPEAKER_01]: that had been done on me, right?

[00:23:52] [SPEAKER_01]: For those listening and printing.

[00:23:54] [SPEAKER_01]: When you listen to something for the first time,

[00:23:57] [SPEAKER_01]: you can assume that that is the truth.

[00:24:00] [SPEAKER_01]: The truth.

[00:24:02] [SPEAKER_01]: And I remember when we were in this marketing space, right?

[00:24:05] [SPEAKER_01]: That one particular story, it was about somebody

[00:24:10] [SPEAKER_01]: riding their bike, right?

[00:24:12] [SPEAKER_01]: Trying to sell their stuff and they were concerned

[00:24:13] [SPEAKER_01]: about why is my thing not selling?

[00:24:15] [SPEAKER_01]: You know, I'm a great marketer.

[00:24:17] [SPEAKER_01]: And then they saw this sign of a terrible company

[00:24:21] [SPEAKER_01]: that was selling a lot, but they're like,

[00:24:22] [SPEAKER_01]: why can't they sell not me?

[00:24:24] [SPEAKER_01]: And their realization was, well,

[00:24:26] [SPEAKER_01]: because they have better marketing.

[00:24:28] [SPEAKER_01]: Obviously that was the story now looking back

[00:24:30] [SPEAKER_01]: that that's the story to sell their product, right?

[00:24:32] [SPEAKER_01]: They were selling marketing.

[00:24:34] [SPEAKER_01]: And in my mind I'm like, I got imprinted by that story

[00:24:36] [SPEAKER_01]: because in a sense I started believing, right?

[00:24:40] [SPEAKER_01]: That was my belief that, well,

[00:24:42] [SPEAKER_01]: marketing is more important than product,

[00:24:44] [SPEAKER_01]: right at the end of the day.

[00:24:45] [SPEAKER_01]: Obviously here in Condom's Profit and Condom Momentum

[00:24:48] [SPEAKER_01]: with the service that we offer,

[00:24:49] [SPEAKER_01]: we do focus on product.

[00:24:50] [SPEAKER_01]: I will say I think we're pretty good.

[00:24:52] [SPEAKER_01]: But that is a belief that I've had that is like,

[00:24:55] [SPEAKER_01]: you know, great marketing can sell even bad products, right?

[00:24:59] [SPEAKER_01]: Unfortunately, but...

[00:25:01] [SPEAKER_02]: Well, and you're 100% right, Louise.

[00:25:03] [SPEAKER_02]: It totally can't.

[00:25:04] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.

[00:25:04] [SPEAKER_02]: And it's why all of us today are so guarded.

[00:25:10] [SPEAKER_02]: Like the moment we feel that we're being sold to,

[00:25:13] [SPEAKER_02]: all of our defenses go up.

[00:25:14] [SPEAKER_02]: Because we've all had that moment

[00:25:16] [SPEAKER_02]: where you buy something that doesn't remotely deliver.

[00:25:20] [SPEAKER_02]: In what was promised.

[00:25:21] [SPEAKER_02]: And all that does is it now makes you distrust

[00:25:25] [SPEAKER_02]: anyone selling you any.

[00:25:27] [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, yeah, 100%.

[00:25:28] [SPEAKER_01]: And then you get those problems of churn

[00:25:31] [SPEAKER_01]: and all these problems that you just mentioned, right?

[00:25:33] [SPEAKER_01]: That leaky bucket on your organization

[00:25:35] [SPEAKER_01]: and people leaving because it's frustrating to operate.

[00:25:39] [SPEAKER_01]: Something else.

[00:25:40] [SPEAKER_02]: And to that point, like Dan Kennedy always talks about that.

[00:25:42] [SPEAKER_02]: Like the difference between a marketer and a strategist.

[00:25:47] [SPEAKER_02]: A marketer removes the first name field on an opt-in

[00:25:50] [SPEAKER_02]: because it raises conversions by 10%.

[00:25:53] [SPEAKER_02]: A strategist recognizes that all you've done

[00:25:56] [SPEAKER_02]: is crammed more, less qualified volume into a process.

[00:26:01] [SPEAKER_02]: So if you're optimizing for the marketer variable over here,

[00:26:06] [SPEAKER_02]: you might lose on the actual metric that matters,

[00:26:08] [SPEAKER_02]: which is how much money is there at the end of the month.

[00:26:11] [SPEAKER_02]: And we as marketers focus on those optimizations.

[00:26:15] [SPEAKER_02]: It's like, oh, you know, is my page converting?

[00:26:17] [SPEAKER_02]: And we're looking at everything.

[00:26:20] [SPEAKER_02]: We're not asking is what I'm saying actually resonant

[00:26:23] [SPEAKER_02]: is what I'm delivering actually transformative

[00:26:26] [SPEAKER_02]: is what I'm bringing something that I care more about

[00:26:29] [SPEAKER_02]: than the people that, you know,

[00:26:32] [SPEAKER_02]: I want them to have such a great experience

[00:26:33] [SPEAKER_02]: that I don't need to sell or market.

[00:26:36] [SPEAKER_02]: I want them being my sales and marketing.

[00:26:38] [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, you just mentioned we're at resonant, right?

[00:26:40] [SPEAKER_01]: And we actually had an episode on that recently

[00:26:43] [SPEAKER_01]: talking about the importance of resonance in your message

[00:26:46] [SPEAKER_01]: and in your content.

[00:26:48] [SPEAKER_01]: And everything that you've mentioned here today

[00:26:50] [SPEAKER_01]: aligns with that, right?

[00:26:51] [SPEAKER_01]: Like from the Kajabi Hero program to the way your organization

[00:26:56] [SPEAKER_01]: operates on how your structure and with, you know,

[00:26:59] [SPEAKER_01]: that ball side that you have, it all aligns with resonance.

[00:27:04] [SPEAKER_01]: And I wanted to kind of like circle back a little bit

[00:27:07] [SPEAKER_01]: because there's a lot of introspection

[00:27:10] [SPEAKER_01]: that seems to be happening, right?

[00:27:13] [SPEAKER_01]: When you are running these companies and this is a challenge

[00:27:18] [SPEAKER_01]: that I see.

[00:27:19] [SPEAKER_01]: And I would love to hear your opinion on this

[00:27:20] [SPEAKER_01]: because you said, all right, when I have a problem here,

[00:27:23] [SPEAKER_01]: I try to look for a new solution.

[00:27:25] [SPEAKER_01]: You know, when I'm deeply looking inside of me,

[00:27:27] [SPEAKER_01]: I find that it's because there's something hard

[00:27:29] [SPEAKER_01]: that I need to fix probably is a product

[00:27:32] [SPEAKER_01]: I go back and work on the product.

[00:27:34] [SPEAKER_01]: Now there are, I can see this as a cycle, right?

[00:27:38] [SPEAKER_01]: Somebody that is like, well, okay,

[00:27:39] [SPEAKER_01]: well, maybe it's not the marketing.

[00:27:40] [SPEAKER_01]: Let me work focus on product.

[00:27:43] [SPEAKER_01]: And let's bring this to maybe the context of a smaller business,

[00:27:46] [SPEAKER_01]: a business that might not have as many resources.

[00:27:49] [SPEAKER_01]: And they go back and they focus on product.

[00:27:51] [SPEAKER_01]: And at that time, maybe they're not marketing as much

[00:27:54] [SPEAKER_01]: and they might start filling that feast

[00:27:56] [SPEAKER_01]: and famine cycle where they're like,

[00:27:58] [SPEAKER_01]: well, I need customers.

[00:28:00] [SPEAKER_01]: I got to stop working on this and now start marketing.

[00:28:03] [SPEAKER_01]: And then maybe they get one or two clients

[00:28:05] [SPEAKER_01]: and they get busy and they stop their marketing to,

[00:28:08] [SPEAKER_01]: you know, focus on fulfillment.

[00:28:10] [SPEAKER_01]: And it kind of falls into that cycle.

[00:28:12] [SPEAKER_01]: So I'm curious, right?

[00:28:13] [SPEAKER_01]: For somebody that may be an organization

[00:28:15] [SPEAKER_01]: that might not have as many resources,

[00:28:18] [SPEAKER_01]: how can they break that cycle?

[00:28:20] [SPEAKER_01]: But at the same time, you know,

[00:28:22] [SPEAKER_01]: have the insurspection to know

[00:28:24] [SPEAKER_01]: that they don't need to be chasing new things.

[00:28:27] [SPEAKER_01]: Because again, at the end of the day,

[00:28:29] [SPEAKER_01]: we already know that chasing that new thing

[00:28:31] [SPEAKER_01]: is going to be a big no and it's not going to help you succeed.

[00:28:35] [SPEAKER_02]: So it is always going to be a delicate personal balancing act

[00:28:41] [SPEAKER_02]: that is individualized for each business.

[00:28:43] [SPEAKER_02]: So in my book, I talk about the idea

[00:28:46] [SPEAKER_02]: that product is hard to nail.

[00:28:50] [SPEAKER_02]: It is in a constantly iterative process

[00:28:52] [SPEAKER_02]: of feedback and improvement throughout the course

[00:28:56] [SPEAKER_02]: of the company.

[00:28:57] [SPEAKER_02]: That job is never done

[00:28:58] [SPEAKER_02]: and it's expensive to have a great product.

[00:29:01] [SPEAKER_02]: It's why venture capital exists.

[00:29:04] [SPEAKER_02]: Where I think you can win is in the early days

[00:29:07] [SPEAKER_02]: as you're co-creating the perfect product with your customers,

[00:29:11] [SPEAKER_02]: you can lean on customer experience

[00:29:14] [SPEAKER_02]: for the gaps in the product.

[00:29:16] [SPEAKER_02]: And what I mean by that is, you know,

[00:29:18] [SPEAKER_02]: Ryan Dice used to always say,

[00:29:19] [SPEAKER_02]: well, the definition of automated is,

[00:29:21] [SPEAKER_02]: I don't have to do it.

[00:29:23] [SPEAKER_02]: So it doesn't mean it needs to be code

[00:29:25] [SPEAKER_02]: or it doesn't mean it needs to be an application.

[00:29:26] [SPEAKER_02]: It just means it needs to be done

[00:29:28] [SPEAKER_02]: by somebody else or something else.

[00:29:31] [SPEAKER_02]: And the company that I love the way they did this

[00:29:33] [SPEAKER_02]: was a company back in the day called Stealth Seminar,

[00:29:36] [SPEAKER_02]: GF Ronning, unbelievably brilliant entrepreneur.

[00:29:39] [SPEAKER_02]: They had a customer success department

[00:29:42] [SPEAKER_02]: that would take on almost every aspect necessary

[00:29:45] [SPEAKER_02]: for you to successfully use their platform

[00:29:48] [SPEAKER_02]: because they were areas that the platform couldn't automate.

[00:29:52] [SPEAKER_02]: So for example, connecting your billing gateway,

[00:29:55] [SPEAKER_02]: the product couldn't do that automatically

[00:29:56] [SPEAKER_02]: because back in the day, there were too many gateways.

[00:29:58] [SPEAKER_02]: This is pretty straight.

[00:29:59] [SPEAKER_02]: So his customer service team would connect the gateway for you.

[00:30:03] [SPEAKER_02]: Now, that's something that in an ideal world,

[00:30:05] [SPEAKER_02]: that would be in the product.

[00:30:07] [SPEAKER_02]: That would be a one button pipe to the billing

[00:30:09] [SPEAKER_02]: and you're good to go.

[00:30:11] [SPEAKER_02]: But until you have that or can build that,

[00:30:14] [SPEAKER_02]: having a customer service team

[00:30:15] [SPEAKER_02]: that'll do that in the background,

[00:30:17] [SPEAKER_02]: you can get the same effect.

[00:30:19] [SPEAKER_02]: You can get the same scale and flywheel in product

[00:30:22] [SPEAKER_02]: using customer experience as a surrogate

[00:30:24] [SPEAKER_02]: while you're co-creating.

[00:30:26] [SPEAKER_02]: So there's areas where I believe you can create

[00:30:29] [SPEAKER_02]: what you want in the product in a more manual fashion

[00:30:33] [SPEAKER_02]: with resources that are less expensive as you're building.

[00:30:37] [SPEAKER_02]: But all I would say is all of them are important.

[00:30:41] [SPEAKER_02]: None of them should be neglected

[00:30:43] [SPEAKER_02]: because at the end of the day, cashflow does fix everything

[00:30:46] [SPEAKER_02]: but cashflow also covers a multitude of sins.

[00:30:49] [SPEAKER_02]: So I'm never going to say

[00:30:51] [SPEAKER_02]: you shouldn't be selling and marketing.

[00:30:53] [SPEAKER_02]: You should be doing that all of the time.

[00:30:55] [SPEAKER_02]: But what I am saying is if the business isn't performing

[00:30:59] [SPEAKER_02]: or growing at a level that is acceptable to you,

[00:31:02] [SPEAKER_02]: don't only look at marketing

[00:31:04] [SPEAKER_02]: because you may have already done the 20% of the marketing

[00:31:08] [SPEAKER_02]: that's going to get you 80% of the results.

[00:31:11] [SPEAKER_02]: Well rather than dump 80% more work

[00:31:14] [SPEAKER_02]: to get another 20% out of marketing,

[00:31:16] [SPEAKER_02]: why not dump 80% of effort into product?

[00:31:19] [SPEAKER_02]: Why not dump 80% of effort into customer experience?

[00:31:22] [SPEAKER_02]: Why not dump 80% of effort into these other areas

[00:31:26] [SPEAKER_02]: that will improve and amplify marketing versus just living here?

[00:31:31] [SPEAKER_02]: And that's really the only thing that is very individual

[00:31:34] [SPEAKER_02]: is only you as the entrepreneur know,

[00:31:37] [SPEAKER_02]: does your product truly do what it says it should do

[00:31:39] [SPEAKER_02]: in a way that is exciting enough

[00:31:41] [SPEAKER_02]: that people want to talk about it.

[00:31:43] [SPEAKER_02]: If it does, awesome.

[00:31:44] [SPEAKER_02]: If all you get is customer love, awesome.

[00:31:47] [SPEAKER_02]: But if you're getting feedback that it can be improved,

[00:31:50] [SPEAKER_02]: don't miss those improvements.

[00:31:52] [SPEAKER_02]: If you can make the product better,

[00:31:54] [SPEAKER_02]: it will make every aspect of your company better.

[00:31:57] [SPEAKER_02]: So it is going to be both.

[00:31:59] [SPEAKER_02]: You always will have to do both.

[00:32:00] [SPEAKER_02]: And there will be seasons

[00:32:01] [SPEAKER_02]: where you are going to be spinning a lot of plates.

[00:32:03] [SPEAKER_02]: But I will give you the unlock that fixes the marketing burden

[00:32:07] [SPEAKER_02]: and that is choosing a product in a market

[00:32:11] [SPEAKER_02]: that the market actually wants.

[00:32:14] [SPEAKER_02]: That if you are in a position

[00:32:16] [SPEAKER_02]: where your business requires two sales not one,

[00:32:18] [SPEAKER_02]: your business is going to be twice or 200% harder.

[00:32:22] [SPEAKER_02]: Because if you've got to sell the person

[00:32:24] [SPEAKER_02]: on the problem you solved first,

[00:32:27] [SPEAKER_02]: then you've got to sell them

[00:32:29] [SPEAKER_02]: on you being the solution for that problem.

[00:32:31] [SPEAKER_02]: That is a hard business.

[00:32:33] [SPEAKER_02]: You have to sell somebody on they have this problem

[00:32:36] [SPEAKER_02]: and that it's an actual problem.

[00:32:37] [SPEAKER_02]: So that sale process has to take place,

[00:32:40] [SPEAKER_02]: takes time, takes efforts

[00:32:41] [SPEAKER_02]: and you're going to have however many people

[00:32:43] [SPEAKER_02]: buy that premise versus how many people don't.

[00:32:46] [SPEAKER_02]: Then you've got to sell them

[00:32:47] [SPEAKER_02]: on why you're the appropriate solution for the problem

[00:32:49] [SPEAKER_02]: you just sold them on the fact that they have.

[00:32:52] [SPEAKER_02]: Those are two very detailed sales processes

[00:32:54] [SPEAKER_02]: and Eugene Schwartz in his book Breakthrough Advertising

[00:32:56] [SPEAKER_02]: does an amazing job here

[00:32:58] [SPEAKER_02]: and he talks about this idea that it is impossible

[00:33:03] [SPEAKER_02]: to create desire in a marketplace.

[00:33:06] [SPEAKER_02]: Impossible.

[00:33:07] [SPEAKER_02]: All you can do is direct that desire.

[00:33:11] [SPEAKER_02]: So if you're in a position

[00:33:12] [SPEAKER_02]: where you're trying to create desire

[00:33:14] [SPEAKER_02]: and then direct desire,

[00:33:15] [SPEAKER_02]: your business is just going to be really, really hard.

[00:33:18] [SPEAKER_02]: You've got to be in a position where there is desire

[00:33:21] [SPEAKER_02]: and you're simply directing it, pointing it, assigning it.

[00:33:25] [SPEAKER_02]: It has to be that.

[00:33:26] [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.

[00:33:26] [SPEAKER_01]: Jaikron, I love this by the way.

[00:33:29] [SPEAKER_01]: The way you talk about this was just absolutely beautiful.

[00:33:34] [SPEAKER_01]: I love that you are a direct response nerd like we are.

[00:33:38] [SPEAKER_01]: I love that stuff and Eugene Schwartz

[00:33:41] [SPEAKER_01]: and to what you just mentioned,

[00:33:43] [SPEAKER_01]: I heard once the person that understands the problem best

[00:33:47] [SPEAKER_01]: and knows how to communicate the problem best

[00:33:50] [SPEAKER_01]: is the person that is going to win.

[00:33:54] [SPEAKER_01]: I know we're about to wrap up here.

[00:33:56] [SPEAKER_01]: We're getting close to the end.

[00:33:57] [SPEAKER_01]: I just have one more tiny questions.

[00:34:00] [SPEAKER_01]: Inside of your core principles for the effective promotion,

[00:34:03] [SPEAKER_01]: one of them is the emotional appeal.

[00:34:07] [SPEAKER_01]: And I feel today we've talked a little bit more

[00:34:09] [SPEAKER_01]: on the tactical side of things

[00:34:10] [SPEAKER_01]: and where to place our focus

[00:34:12] [SPEAKER_01]: and the role that content has played.

[00:34:15] [SPEAKER_01]: But emotional appeal is extremely important.

[00:34:19] [SPEAKER_01]: People make decisions first emotionally

[00:34:22] [SPEAKER_01]: and then they justify them logically.

[00:34:25] [SPEAKER_01]: And I'm extremely curious.

[00:34:26] [SPEAKER_01]: Obviously, I can see that with the hero program

[00:34:28] [SPEAKER_01]: and having multiple different profiles of people

[00:34:33] [SPEAKER_01]: sharing their stories, their testimonials.

[00:34:36] [SPEAKER_01]: That obviously talked to the strings

[00:34:38] [SPEAKER_01]: of many different personas.

[00:34:40] [SPEAKER_01]: Many different avatars.

[00:34:41] [SPEAKER_01]: If you want to call them that way,

[00:34:42] [SPEAKER_01]: then they're going to say,

[00:34:43] [SPEAKER_01]: oh, wow, that could be me.

[00:34:45] [SPEAKER_01]: They were in the exact position.

[00:34:47] [SPEAKER_01]: But I want to approach this question now

[00:34:49] [SPEAKER_01]: on your personal brand.

[00:34:51] [SPEAKER_01]: Because I feel like now you are growing

[00:34:52] [SPEAKER_01]: your own personal brand.

[00:34:54] [SPEAKER_01]: You're active on Twitter.

[00:34:55] [SPEAKER_01]: You're putting content.

[00:34:56] [SPEAKER_01]: You wrote the book.

[00:34:57] [SPEAKER_01]: You're promoting it.

[00:34:58] [SPEAKER_01]: You're going on multiple podcasts.

[00:35:00] [SPEAKER_01]: That's absolutely amazing.

[00:35:02] [SPEAKER_01]: But I'm curious to know how are you talking

[00:35:04] [SPEAKER_01]: to those emotional strings

[00:35:06] [SPEAKER_01]: when building your own personal brand?

[00:35:09] [SPEAKER_02]: So it's a great question.

[00:35:11] [SPEAKER_02]: And I would say even in my personal brand,

[00:35:14] [SPEAKER_02]: you're going to see me be very, very different

[00:35:17] [SPEAKER_02]: than everybody else in the space.

[00:35:20] [SPEAKER_02]: I don't have any desire to compete with people

[00:35:23] [SPEAKER_02]: that are content machines.

[00:35:24] [SPEAKER_02]: That's not going to be me.

[00:35:25] [SPEAKER_02]: I don't really have any desire.

[00:35:27] [SPEAKER_02]: Like if I could, I mean, it sounds crazy

[00:35:29] [SPEAKER_02]: as an online software executive.

[00:35:32] [SPEAKER_02]: If I could just not even be on the internet,

[00:35:35] [SPEAKER_02]: I would probably do that.

[00:35:37] [SPEAKER_02]: Just because Cal Newport to me,

[00:35:40] [SPEAKER_02]: I think has figured it out.

[00:35:42] [SPEAKER_02]: I mean, best selling author,

[00:35:43] [SPEAKER_02]: unbelievable brand and presence, no social media.

[00:35:48] [SPEAKER_02]: To me, it's a different way of existing

[00:35:51] [SPEAKER_02]: that I've not yet cracked.

[00:35:52] [SPEAKER_02]: But that's what I'm working on.

[00:35:54] [SPEAKER_02]: But when you look at how I want

[00:35:56] [SPEAKER_02]: to communicate with the people

[00:35:57] [SPEAKER_02]: that I hope to communicate with,

[00:35:59] [SPEAKER_02]: I want to get layers down

[00:36:02] [SPEAKER_02]: to the core drivers of those decisions.

[00:36:05] [SPEAKER_02]: So you're 100% right.

[00:36:06] [SPEAKER_02]: Every buying decision is made emotionally

[00:36:08] [SPEAKER_02]: and justified logically.

[00:36:10] [SPEAKER_02]: And in that process, when you learn that,

[00:36:12] [SPEAKER_02]: you understand that there are levels

[00:36:14] [SPEAKER_02]: to that set of emotions.

[00:36:15] [SPEAKER_02]: So I might respond to an ad for

[00:36:18] [SPEAKER_02]: how to get fit over 40 by some NFL coach

[00:36:22] [SPEAKER_02]: that's going to teach me.

[00:36:23] [SPEAKER_02]: Because I've got a body bite

[00:36:26] [SPEAKER_02]: in and out burger in Southern California.

[00:36:28] [SPEAKER_02]: Like I'm not a fit guy and I want to get fit.

[00:36:31] [SPEAKER_02]: But if I'm on a sales call

[00:36:32] [SPEAKER_02]: with this guy who's going to sell me fitness coaching

[00:36:35] [SPEAKER_02]: and he's like, well, what's your goal?

[00:36:37] [SPEAKER_02]: And I'm like, I'd really like to lose like 30, 40 pounds.

[00:36:40] [SPEAKER_02]: That would be great.

[00:36:41] [SPEAKER_02]: If he stops there and starts going into

[00:36:44] [SPEAKER_02]: how he's going to help me lose 30 to 40 pounds,

[00:36:46] [SPEAKER_02]: it might work.

[00:36:48] [SPEAKER_02]: But what it really means is,

[00:36:49] [SPEAKER_02]: oh, well, what would 30 to 40 pounds

[00:36:51] [SPEAKER_02]: lost do for you?

[00:36:53] [SPEAKER_02]: You know, I'd be healthier.

[00:36:55] [SPEAKER_02]: I'd feel like I was more of an active guy.

[00:36:58] [SPEAKER_02]: I'd feel like I'd be a longer lifespan

[00:37:00] [SPEAKER_02]: for my life for my daughter.

[00:37:01] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.

[00:37:02] [SPEAKER_02]: That would be the second level of desire.

[00:37:06] [SPEAKER_02]: And if he kept going there,

[00:37:07] [SPEAKER_02]: it would be better than the first track,

[00:37:09] [SPEAKER_02]: but not as good as the third track.

[00:37:11] [SPEAKER_02]: And the third track is getting me to admit

[00:37:13] [SPEAKER_02]: that really I just don't want to be embarrassed

[00:37:16] [SPEAKER_02]: when my daughter wants me to run around the yard

[00:37:18] [SPEAKER_02]: and I'm out of breath

[00:37:19] [SPEAKER_02]: or I don't want to be embarrassed

[00:37:21] [SPEAKER_02]: when my daughter says let's go swimming.

[00:37:22] [SPEAKER_02]: And I'm like, man, if there's anyone else at my house,

[00:37:24] [SPEAKER_02]: I really don't want to take my shirt off.

[00:37:26] [SPEAKER_02]: Like those are the core drivers

[00:37:28] [SPEAKER_02]: that started me clicking on that ad

[00:37:31] [SPEAKER_02]: that that's the conversation that's going on in my mind

[00:37:34] [SPEAKER_02]: that if you don't enter it at that level,

[00:37:37] [SPEAKER_02]: the, you know, you've got the weight loss

[00:37:40] [SPEAKER_02]: is the offer.

[00:37:42] [SPEAKER_02]: Then the better health is the benefit of that.

[00:37:45] [SPEAKER_02]: And then the benefit of the benefit

[00:37:46] [SPEAKER_02]: is this thing that I really care about.

[00:37:49] [SPEAKER_02]: You want to get to a place

[00:37:50] [SPEAKER_02]: where you're communicating at that level.

[00:37:53] [SPEAKER_02]: And so for me,

[00:37:54] [SPEAKER_02]: the people that I'm going to talk to

[00:37:55] [SPEAKER_02]: is a very, very small subsection

[00:37:58] [SPEAKER_02]: not because I don't love everybody.

[00:38:01] [SPEAKER_02]: Like I love talking about business.

[00:38:03] [SPEAKER_02]: I love being on this podcast,

[00:38:04] [SPEAKER_02]: but I know that my skill sets and thinking

[00:38:08] [SPEAKER_02]: are meant for a very specific stage in a company.

[00:38:12] [SPEAKER_02]: You know, I joined Kajabi at 6 million in ARR

[00:38:14] [SPEAKER_02]: and 25 team members.

[00:38:15] [SPEAKER_02]: When I exited to a board position with Kenny,

[00:38:18] [SPEAKER_02]: we had grown it to north of 100 million

[00:38:20] [SPEAKER_02]: in ARR 400 team members

[00:38:22] [SPEAKER_02]: and a $2 billion valuation.

[00:38:24] [SPEAKER_02]: That's my band of expertise.

[00:38:27] [SPEAKER_02]: That's where I play.

[00:38:28] [SPEAKER_02]: And so I'm probably not going to have a personal brand

[00:38:31] [SPEAKER_02]: that appeals to the $0 to $100,000 entrepreneur

[00:38:35] [SPEAKER_02]: or the $100,000 to a million dollar entrepreneur.

[00:38:38] [SPEAKER_02]: Can I speak to that?

[00:38:39] [SPEAKER_02]: Yes. Can I offer help?

[00:38:42] [SPEAKER_02]: Yes.

[00:38:42] [SPEAKER_02]: But is that the area where I am effortlessly,

[00:38:46] [SPEAKER_02]: unconsciously competent?

[00:38:48] [SPEAKER_02]: No, it's not because this is where I play.

[00:38:51] [SPEAKER_02]: So I think if I do it right,

[00:38:53] [SPEAKER_02]: you'll hopefully see my book

[00:38:54] [SPEAKER_02]: and see my brand

[00:38:56] [SPEAKER_02]: speak exactly to those businesses

[00:38:59] [SPEAKER_02]: and those are the businesses

[00:39:01] [SPEAKER_02]: that I'm excited to connect with.

[00:39:03] [SPEAKER_02]: And I think Alex Hormozzi said it best,

[00:39:05] [SPEAKER_02]: you know, I want to put all of the content

[00:39:07] [SPEAKER_02]: and things I can out there

[00:39:09] [SPEAKER_02]: so that you either are at a size

[00:39:11] [SPEAKER_02]: where you can work with me

[00:39:12] [SPEAKER_02]: or that you implement this stuff

[00:39:14] [SPEAKER_02]: to get to a size where you will want to work with me.

[00:39:17] [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.

[00:39:17] [SPEAKER_02]: That's the best positioning I've ever heard.

[00:39:19] [SPEAKER_02]: So I don't think you're going to see me

[00:39:21] [SPEAKER_02]: launch a course for beginners

[00:39:22] [SPEAKER_02]: because I don't know that that's the audience

[00:39:24] [SPEAKER_02]: I can speak to the best.

[00:39:26] [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.

[00:39:27] [SPEAKER_01]: 100%.

[00:39:27] [SPEAKER_02]: I'm not sure if that answered your question.

[00:39:29] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, no, no, that's the answer I've got.

[00:39:30] [SPEAKER_01]: That was really good.

[00:39:31] [SPEAKER_01]: It reminded me of a comment I made a while back

[00:39:33] [SPEAKER_01]: where I was like,

[00:39:34] [SPEAKER_01]: the dichotomy of online entrepreneurship,

[00:39:36] [SPEAKER_01]: you know, I'm like wanting to have a successful

[00:39:39] [SPEAKER_01]: online business without having to publish at all

[00:39:42] [SPEAKER_01]: in social media, right?

[00:39:43] [SPEAKER_01]: And I feel like not saying

[00:39:45] [SPEAKER_01]: that you're growing just an online business, right?

[00:39:46] [SPEAKER_01]: But for your personal brand,

[00:39:47] [SPEAKER_01]: I feel like you're kind of like dealing

[00:39:49] [SPEAKER_01]: with that as well.

[00:39:50] [SPEAKER_01]: But you know, obviously,

[00:39:51] [SPEAKER_01]: you are somebody that wants to deliver value

[00:39:54] [SPEAKER_01]: and you want to help anybody that you're any entrepreneur,

[00:39:57] [SPEAKER_01]: right?

[00:39:57] [SPEAKER_01]: You have a love for entrepreneurs.

[00:39:59] [SPEAKER_01]: I can feel that.

[00:40:00] [SPEAKER_02]: I've been blessed with unbelievable mentors

[00:40:03] [SPEAKER_02]: that have shown up in my life

[00:40:04] [SPEAKER_02]: at exactly the time I needed it.

[00:40:06] [SPEAKER_02]: And by the way, for all of you listening,

[00:40:08] [SPEAKER_02]: this is my shameless plug for why

[00:40:10] [SPEAKER_02]: you should stay close to Luis and Luis

[00:40:11] [SPEAKER_02]: with what they're working on

[00:40:13] [SPEAKER_02]: is I kept getting asked by everyone,

[00:40:16] [SPEAKER_02]: what did it?

[00:40:18] [SPEAKER_02]: What made all the difference?

[00:40:19] [SPEAKER_02]: How did this happen?

[00:40:20] [SPEAKER_02]: How did you do this?

[00:40:21] [SPEAKER_02]: And I would joke about it.

[00:40:22] [SPEAKER_02]: I would always say,

[00:40:23] [SPEAKER_02]: well, I don't really have my never fail

[00:40:25] [SPEAKER_02]: 37 point double unicorn checklist.

[00:40:29] [SPEAKER_02]: Like I don't really have that.

[00:40:30] [SPEAKER_02]: But after sitting with it for a while and drinking

[00:40:33] [SPEAKER_02]: because you know,

[00:40:34] [SPEAKER_02]: that's what you do when you're retired

[00:40:35] [SPEAKER_02]: is you drink and think.

[00:40:36] [SPEAKER_02]: And so this comment

[00:40:38] [SPEAKER_02]: and insight is brought to you by

[00:40:39] [SPEAKER_02]: Claasie Azul Repesado.

[00:40:41] [SPEAKER_02]: But I finally figured out

[00:40:44] [SPEAKER_02]: that when someone says,

[00:40:45] [SPEAKER_02]: how did you do this?

[00:40:46] [SPEAKER_02]: The best way I can describe it is

[00:40:49] [SPEAKER_02]: the only thing that matters

[00:40:50] [SPEAKER_02]: is the quality of people you can access

[00:40:53] [SPEAKER_02]: in the inflection points that matter.

[00:40:55] [SPEAKER_02]: And the inflection points that matter

[00:40:56] [SPEAKER_02]: are very few

[00:40:58] [SPEAKER_02]: and the quality of people you reach

[00:41:00] [SPEAKER_02]: in those inflection points

[00:41:01] [SPEAKER_02]: makes all the difference.

[00:41:02] [SPEAKER_02]: Like in my own life,

[00:41:03] [SPEAKER_02]: there was a moment where I was deciding

[00:41:05] [SPEAKER_02]: whether I was going to go to work with Pajabi

[00:41:07] [SPEAKER_02]: and I know this moment

[00:41:09] [SPEAKER_02]: because my father who,

[00:41:11] [SPEAKER_02]: you know, wonderful man

[00:41:12] [SPEAKER_02]: had a great career as a sales guy

[00:41:14] [SPEAKER_02]: but he had a worldview

[00:41:16] [SPEAKER_02]: where it was get the best salary

[00:41:17] [SPEAKER_02]: you can fill up your 401k,

[00:41:19] [SPEAKER_02]: retire at 65

[00:41:20] [SPEAKER_02]: and hope for the best.

[00:41:22] [SPEAKER_02]: And I remember telling my dad

[00:41:24] [SPEAKER_02]: that going to Pajabi

[00:41:25] [SPEAKER_02]: was going to mean a 50% cut in salary.

[00:41:29] [SPEAKER_02]: And my dad was like,

[00:41:30] [SPEAKER_02]: why would you do that?

[00:41:31] [SPEAKER_02]: That's insane.

[00:41:31] [SPEAKER_02]: Get the best salary you can.

[00:41:33] [SPEAKER_02]: But then I sat down with two friends of mine

[00:41:35] [SPEAKER_02]: from YPO,

[00:41:36] [SPEAKER_02]: which is Young Presidents Organization

[00:41:38] [SPEAKER_02]: a wonderful organization

[00:41:39] [SPEAKER_02]: I've been in for 10 years.

[00:41:41] [SPEAKER_02]: One of the gentlemen's name is GS.

[00:41:42] [SPEAKER_02]: The other one is Sergio.

[00:41:44] [SPEAKER_02]: And I was talking to both of them.

[00:41:46] [SPEAKER_02]: They both have companies

[00:41:47] [SPEAKER_02]: that they've exited and grew

[00:41:49] [SPEAKER_02]: and they were like,

[00:41:50] [SPEAKER_02]: well, do you think you could get another job

[00:41:53] [SPEAKER_02]: if this thing didn't work out?

[00:41:54] [SPEAKER_02]: I'm like, yeah, I could.

[00:41:55] [SPEAKER_02]: And they're like, oh, well, then there's no question.

[00:41:57] [SPEAKER_02]: You know, go where you have the cap table participation

[00:42:00] [SPEAKER_02]: the upside in the asset

[00:42:02] [SPEAKER_02]: because that's where all of the success comes from.

[00:42:05] [SPEAKER_02]: And if I didn't have those two conversations,

[00:42:08] [SPEAKER_02]: my worldview would have been,

[00:42:10] [SPEAKER_02]: no, I'm not going to do that.

[00:42:11] [SPEAKER_02]: I'm going to go get a salary

[00:42:11] [SPEAKER_02]: and get another job.

[00:42:13] [SPEAKER_02]: And in that moment,

[00:42:15] [SPEAKER_02]: that changed everything.

[00:42:17] [SPEAKER_02]: You know, that was that inflection point here

[00:42:18] [SPEAKER_02]: where it could have gone here

[00:42:19] [SPEAKER_02]: or it could have gone here.

[00:42:20] [SPEAKER_02]: And that's what changed.

[00:42:22] [SPEAKER_02]: So that's awesome.

[00:42:23] [SPEAKER_02]: Listening to podcasts like this

[00:42:25] [SPEAKER_02]: where you have people that are on the cutting edge

[00:42:27] [SPEAKER_02]: of what content is,

[00:42:28] [SPEAKER_02]: what content can mean for your business.

[00:42:30] [SPEAKER_02]: You need to stay here

[00:42:31] [SPEAKER_02]: because this will answer the question

[00:42:33] [SPEAKER_02]: of what should content do in your business?

[00:42:35] [SPEAKER_02]: And that may be the inflection point for you.

[00:42:37] [SPEAKER_02]: The change is everything.

[00:42:38] [SPEAKER_02]: So for those of you listening,

[00:42:40] [SPEAKER_02]: I'm glad you're listening.

[00:42:41] [SPEAKER_02]: You could be listening to anything

[00:42:42] [SPEAKER_02]: and I'm thrilled you're listening

[00:42:43] [SPEAKER_02]: to something that's going to improve your business.

[00:42:45] [SPEAKER_02]: I'm happy to be here

[00:42:46] [SPEAKER_02]: and happy to help in any way I can.

[00:42:47] [SPEAKER_00]: Jaikron, thank you so much.

[00:42:49] [SPEAKER_00]: We really appreciate it.

[00:42:50] [SPEAKER_00]: I think that sums up the episode.

[00:42:52] [SPEAKER_00]: Wow, what a banger.

[00:42:54] [SPEAKER_00]: And you did our outro today.

[00:42:57] [SPEAKER_00]: So with that said guys,

[00:42:58] [SPEAKER_00]: thank you so much for tuning to the Contents Profit Podcast.

[00:43:01] [SPEAKER_00]: Go ahead and follow the show

[00:43:02] [SPEAKER_00]: in your favorite podcasting platforms

[00:43:03] [SPEAKER_00]: and on social media at Bisbrowsko.

[00:43:05] [SPEAKER_01]: That is Renev Jaikron here.

[00:43:07] [SPEAKER_01]: Hope you move one step closer towards your goal.

[00:43:09] [SPEAKER_01]: Please don't forget to share this episode

[00:43:10] [SPEAKER_01]: and of course, don't forget to leave a five star review.

[00:43:13] [SPEAKER_01]: See ya.

[00:43:14] [SPEAKER_00]: Bye guys.