Three Steps To Grow A Profitable Podcast in Every Industry with Courtney Elmer

[00:00:00] Podcasting is all about human talking to humans. We do forget that.

[00:00:05] Courtney, how do you do it? How do you rank so often so high?

[00:00:09] Let me caveat this and say, the charts are not the ultimate anecdotal beyond measure of success for your podcast.

[00:00:14] When we launch them on We Ranked, why can they hold for after?

[00:00:20] The name of the game is a tract and retain. That's how we grow a listener based.

[00:00:25] If you're really good at attracting but you're not good at retaining, you have no way to grow.

[00:00:30] If I don't enjoy the process of creation, then nothing comes out and then I don't help anybody.

[00:00:36] How many businesses are created? Because it's all the problem that you had.

[00:00:41] How do you get people to actually move from the platform to take action?

[00:00:45] Look, this is going to sound so generic. There's a lot of people talking about this.

[00:00:50] But a lot of people are not doing this.

[00:00:54] It's...

[00:00:57] Hi everybody, and welcome back to Content and Spravet. Today we have a special guest.

[00:01:02] This person, we met in one of our masterminds and we hopped on a couple calls to help each other out.

[00:01:08] And she's so good. I grew up promoting and ranking podcasts.

[00:01:13] And to be completely honest, her friend works in strategies and tactics work for any kind of content.

[00:01:19] This person has been working more than seven years in marketing and business psychology.

[00:01:27] It's so awesome. That's her unique superpower. Through her company, Pat Lunch, she has more than 60 business owners and experts learn how to rank their podcasts in top 100.

[00:01:38] In fact, 95% of her clients break the apple top 100 and scale five times faster.

[00:01:47] By the way, like I said before, these principles work in any type of content.

[00:01:52] So I'm so ready for this conversation and I'm sure you will enjoy it too.

[00:01:56] Cornel, welcome to the show. I'm so stoked.

[00:01:59] I am so excited to be here, you guys.

[00:02:02] By the way, for those listening, if you for somebody's own here, like a little crazy hold and we kind of lose track of things because Cornel right now is going through her again.

[00:02:11] And she's here committed to content's profit to provide you with wins.

[00:02:16] So don't worry, you know, well, you know, the other episode, if something crazy happens.

[00:02:21] Talking about commitment.

[00:02:23] Tell me.

[00:02:23] I just got married.

[00:02:27] You like that transition?

[00:02:29] You like that transition?

[00:02:30] Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[00:02:33] I'm a new man.

[00:02:35] So new man, new questions, new podcasting by who knows.

[00:02:39] We'll see.

[00:02:40] Boy, it's my first episode as a married man.

[00:02:43] So it's not about you, Fancy is a good one.

[00:02:46] I just wanted to share them news.

[00:02:47] I'm excited.

[00:02:48] I'm pumped.

[00:02:49] I'm not pumped.

[00:02:49] On the first episode as a married man, that is really cool.

[00:02:52] I know it was really cool.

[00:02:53] No fresh at all.

[00:02:56] Cornel, you mean we've had a couple of calls together.

[00:03:00] I've jumped on your show.

[00:03:02] You gave me incredible feedback.

[00:03:04] You've held so many people rank on podcast.

[00:03:07] Actually, I have a number here.

[00:03:08] Like the proven pot lunch formula has helped 95% of clients break the apple top 100 in the category.

[00:03:15] In like their respective categories and scale their podcasts.

[00:03:18] Five times faster than those will start a podcast without it.

[00:03:21] I want to start with that because that's such a powerful statement.

[00:03:24] Cornel, how do you do it?

[00:03:25] How do you get to that?

[00:03:26] How do you rank so often?

[00:03:28] So high.

[00:03:30] What's the secret?

[00:03:31] Let me caveat this and say, just so they were all in the same page here.

[00:03:36] The charts are a wonderful avenue of discoverability.

[00:03:38] It's like the top way that people find new podcasts outside of Word of mouth and outside

[00:03:42] of using the search feature.

[00:03:44] So it's kind of like being on the first page of Google when someone's searching for your

[00:03:47] thing.

[00:03:48] You know if they're going to scroll through the first page, nobody really goes to the second

[00:03:51] page unless they need to and like nobody clicks past page two of Google.

[00:03:55] So think of it that way when you're ranking your podcast.

[00:03:57] That is the benefit.

[00:03:58] That is why we want to be on the charts just to be able to increase that visibility and

[00:04:02] that discoverability.

[00:04:03] However, the charts are not the ultimate end all be all measure of success for your podcast.

[00:04:08] And I say this at the gate before we dig into numbers before you dig in and how to get

[00:04:11] on the charts because a lot of people will set their sights on that and be like, the charts.

[00:04:15] I got to get on the charts.

[00:04:16] I need to have a top 100 podcast when really at the end of the day there are so many different

[00:04:20] reasons why we podcast.

[00:04:22] There are so many different reasons.

[00:04:23] Maybe you're podcasting for Lee Jen.

[00:04:25] Maybe you want to convert listeners to clients.

[00:04:27] Maybe it's targeting guests to convert those to clients.

[00:04:30] Maybe you want to turn the podcast into its own stream of revenue and into a business

[00:04:34] itself.

[00:04:35] Maybe you're just looking to leave a legacy and you want to get your message out into the

[00:04:39] world in a bigger way.

[00:04:40] There's a lot of different reasons it could be a combination of all of the above.

[00:04:43] The charts are one way that we can look at getting discovered.

[00:04:47] It's a tool for that, but it's also not like the end all be all metrics.

[00:04:50] If you're listening right now and you have a podcast, you're in your line of

[00:04:53] questions, but I've never been on the charts.

[00:04:54] I've gotten there once or twice or that's not possible for me.

[00:04:58] I have a small audience if you're totally out of reach.

[00:05:00] The beautiful thing about the charts is anybody can get there and with our clients,

[00:05:05] one of the things that we dig into first and look, this is going to sound so generic.

[00:05:10] Because a lot of people talk about this, but a lot of people are not doing this

[00:05:14] is who is your podcast for?

[00:05:17] Because if you can't tell me and not just demographically, because a lot of times all

[00:05:21] that question and people will be like, oh well, there are 32-year-old guy who lives this

[00:05:25] who does this and they have this career in that thing.

[00:05:28] If you can't tell me the exact problems that your podcast is here to solve in detail with

[00:05:35] specificity, we have a problem right there because if you're not clear on it, your listeners

[00:05:39] won't be either.

[00:05:41] The very first step to be before we can even talk strategy and what do you do?

[00:05:45] How do you get on the charts and all that stuff?

[00:05:46] We've got to make sure your podcast messaging is to dial them.

[00:05:49] Because otherwise, we can throw all the strategies at the wall that we want.

[00:05:53] But they're only going to work to some degree because you'll have a leaky bucket.

[00:05:57] You know, you'll be sending all this traffic to your show, but people won't be sticking.

[00:06:01] So that's thing number one.

[00:06:03] From there, though, once you get that messaging dialed in, well then it's simply a matter of knowing

[00:06:08] what triggers the algorithms on Apple and Spotify.

[00:06:12] And then how can you leverage that with the network and the community that you have,

[00:06:16] whether it's 100 people on your email list or 10,000 people on your email list or 100,000 people

[00:06:22] on your community doesn't matter to size.

[00:06:24] How can we leverage what you have in order to trigger those algorithms and show the Apple podcast

[00:06:30] God's like that your podcast has high listener engagement and therefore is worth sharing.

[00:06:37] It's worth showing to more people.

[00:06:38] It's worth getting in the feeds of more listeners.

[00:06:45] Yeah.

[00:06:46] I agree with them comes often, right?

[00:06:48] And especially with content people want to go to YouTube and whatever.

[00:06:52] And I feel like the general sense is like this platforms are playing against us, right?

[00:06:57] Like that's it feeling I get every time we have a conversation about algorithms.

[00:07:00] It's like, you know, YouTube is against me.

[00:07:02] They don't show me on the, he's like, we're so easy.

[00:07:04] I point in fingers, right?

[00:07:06] And he comes out to our message and like,

[00:07:09] I actually providing our solution to somebody else's problems.

[00:07:11] So we actually providing good entertainment for for that other person, right?

[00:07:16] Because like these platforms is in their best interest to show your podcast if it makes people happy.

[00:07:22] Right? Like they make money off of that.

[00:07:24] So I think like that's also something that I feel every time we have this conversation,

[00:07:29] we have to bring awareness to because a lot of people are like, well,

[00:07:33] you know, I've been on expert on this field for so long or I know about this topic because of XYZ, right?

[00:07:39] But maybe we're not good storytellers, maybe we're not good creators, right?

[00:07:43] Maybe we're, you know, we don't know how to frame a problem in a specific way.

[00:07:46] So we can, so people on the other side can understand it, right?

[00:07:49] And we're victims of it. Like I raised my hand, right?

[00:07:52] Like we, you know, was it the techno Bible, if era that we went through or I went through?

[00:07:57] I really hard. Yeah.

[00:07:59] I was just like super into like, you know, the specifics and I will dive in.

[00:08:03] Fonsor would be like, stop stop stop.

[00:08:05] You're talking about bubbling, right?

[00:08:06] How do we make it seem blunt? How do we get better?

[00:08:08] So I think like, I want to add that a little asteris to everything that you say which is completely true.

[00:08:14] But also it's like, how do we look in words to work on that messaging,

[00:08:18] which is so important for this to.

[00:08:20] And as you're mentioning, like who's your specific person?

[00:08:22] I remember this specific girl I she is in Europe single mom, you know,

[00:08:28] and she will listen. She sent those messages.

[00:08:30] She explained that she would listen to her show at night when she was putting her baby down

[00:08:34] and you know, when she was with her and it inspired her to start creating.

[00:08:39] And I'm like, wow, what a vivid picture of like who we're helping, right?

[00:08:43] Because sometimes we go into specific tactics, sometimes we go into specific strategies.

[00:08:48] But also we share a lot of stories of success.

[00:08:50] People are like doing it, right?

[00:08:52] And I think like that on our side that makes it.

[00:08:55] So, you know, maybe if we picture that person or who makes that comment back to you

[00:08:59] with like, oh man, you're show that episode really helped me.

[00:09:01] I think it's going to help people get to that a little bit faster.

[00:09:06] So thank you for that clear explanation on, and you know,

[00:09:10] to rewind we had the three ways to find your podcast.

[00:09:12] There is no way we'd podcast and who's your podcast for.

[00:09:14] I think that's incredible.

[00:09:16] And not a little bit of asking those questions.

[00:09:18] And basing it on a real person is really key.

[00:09:20] It's really key just to point that out too because a lot of times people say,

[00:09:24] oh, you know, go come up with your listener avatar and this in that.

[00:09:27] And it's like if it's not at the end, if it's in the day it's on a real person,

[00:09:29] then you're going to just be creating like fluff.

[00:09:31] For nobody. You know, it's like who are we actually creating for?

[00:09:35] So I saw people like if you can picture someone that you've worked with

[00:09:38] that if they were the most perfect fit client for you and you would work with them

[00:09:44] 20 times over if you could. And if every client can be exactly like them,

[00:09:47] well, let's create for them, you know,

[00:09:49] and knowing in detail, a specificity is important too,

[00:09:52] knowing in detail what keeps them up at night.

[00:09:57] What are the industry norms or beliefs that they're buying into right now that is

[00:10:00] keeping them from getting what they want? What is it that they're getting what they want?

[00:10:03] And what does they think the problem is not to what do you as the expert know the problem is?

[00:10:09] Because then there's a mismatch in communication, we're speaking from our level of awareness,

[00:10:12] not their level of awareness. But what do they think the problem is or what is

[00:10:16] the problem that they're experiencing in their life right now?

[00:10:18] And can we paint that picture just like I said,

[00:10:20] Louise, that picture is so detailed about, you know,

[00:10:22] that woman that you thought of like we need to be able to communicate at that level of detail

[00:10:26] too for our audience. Because that's what's going to get the unconscious mind

[00:10:30] to lean in and go, yeah, this is for me. I have a question.

[00:10:36] I might butcher a little bit, it's kind of like formal in my head right now.

[00:10:40] But you know, the way you're sharing up with this. Are you married?

[00:10:44] I am married, first of all. So ladies, but go.

[00:10:49] So the way you're explaining this obviously,

[00:10:51] I think we're talking on the expert-based businesses services, right?

[00:10:56] Somebody that is solving a very specific problem.

[00:11:01] So one of the challenges that we've noticed, for example,

[00:11:03] when we saw data records, we talk on a specific problem, right?

[00:11:07] On our podcast for the most part,

[00:11:09] is that we have decent numbers, but then people consume for a few episodes

[00:11:14] and maybe they go move on to the next podcast, right?

[00:11:18] So our growth hasn't been like, I'll say too crazy.

[00:11:24] But it's good, like it's like stable.

[00:11:27] But when we had a conversation, I don't remember who we had a conversation with

[00:11:30] they said that as there were like, oh, those are actually always new listeners.

[00:11:35] Like your challenges actually retaining people for multiple multiple episodes, right?

[00:11:41] So when I'm listening to what you're saying right now, I'm like,

[00:11:43] all right, this is great. I'm curious now on, you know, let's say we do the launch.

[00:11:48] We have this first wave of listeners.

[00:11:51] Are you creating these podcasts? You know,

[00:11:55] knowing that the audience is going to turn around after a specific amount of episodes,

[00:12:01] you know, are you planning for that in a way, right?

[00:12:04] Because when you have a podcast that isn't a very specific problem,

[00:12:08] that's gonna happen, you know, people are gonna be like, right?

[00:12:10] I know enough about this topic I'm going to take action,

[00:12:13] or now I have a different problem that I need solving, right?

[00:12:17] It's not quite as the podcast, like, I don't know,

[00:12:20] legs, freedmen, you know, Joe Rogan, like this personality-based podcast that they talk about,

[00:12:24] about multiple topics and they bring different experts on different things and, you know,

[00:12:29] kind of like always feeding your curiosity.

[00:12:31] So I'm extremely curious, like, based on what you talk about,

[00:12:34] expert-based podcasts, that's all the very specific problem.

[00:12:39] When we launched them, you know, and we ranked,

[00:12:44] what is the not expectation, right?

[00:12:46] But why can they hope for after, right?

[00:12:50] Why do they need to learn? Are they going to retain that audience

[00:12:53] and grow it, grow it legally, sporadically?

[00:12:57] Or, you know, is there going to be some turnaround on they can expect those same numbers as they go?

[00:13:02] I don't know. I have seen Avengers.

[00:13:06] The movie, a long time ago.

[00:13:08] A really long time ago.

[00:13:09] I just reminded me of like, Thanos, Thanos, right?

[00:13:12] Saying, turn is inevitable. What did I never do about it?

[00:13:16] Is that the right word?

[00:13:18] I don't know.

[00:13:19] Like, it always happens.

[00:13:22] It's like, am I wrong?

[00:13:23] It always happens.

[00:13:23] We keep them all.

[00:13:26] Yeah, well, and that's what you have to solve for.

[00:13:28] Exactly that. And, you know, one of the things too,

[00:13:31] and I'll also say this, a lot of people think, well,

[00:13:33] you know, my podcast doesn't solve a problem because it's entertainment focused.

[00:13:35] Or it's community focused.

[00:13:37] Or hey, we have a nonprofit podcast and he's really,

[00:13:39] you know, trying to do good in the world, you know?

[00:13:41] And at the end of the day, I believe every podcast solves a problem

[00:13:43] because why do people listen to Joe Rogan to be entertained?

[00:13:46] Maybe to be distracted.

[00:13:48] Maybe they're bored.

[00:13:49] Maybe they need to take their mind off of something else that's going on

[00:13:51] in their lives that they need to refocus on

[00:13:54] and that outlet to be able to say,

[00:13:57] okay, this is the highlight of my day right now.

[00:13:59] So, dig deep and figure out like, even if you're not an expert podcast,

[00:14:03] what problem do you solve for people? Why do you exist? Why do they listen?

[00:14:07] From there though, yeah, we absolutely want to solve for a tradition

[00:14:09] because it's going to happen.

[00:14:10] The podcast and growth game, it's just the name of the game

[00:14:14] is attract and retain.

[00:14:17] Attract and retain. That's how we grow a listener based.

[00:14:20] If you're really good at attracting but you're not good at retaining,

[00:14:23] you have no way to grow.

[00:14:24] If you're really good at retaining but you're not good at attracting,

[00:14:26] you have no way to grow.

[00:14:28] So, the launch is definitely designed to help you get visible

[00:14:31] for the first time and it's also to signal over those first

[00:14:34] eight weeks to the algorithms like hey people are liking the show.

[00:14:37] It's getting traction, it's getting some engagement, all that good stuff.

[00:14:41] But to your point, Fancy, like what happens after that?

[00:14:44] And so this is where we go back to the messaging piece

[00:14:47] where with how aligned is your content

[00:14:51] to the listener that you're looking to attract

[00:14:53] that you're looking to attract.

[00:14:53] And then how aligned is the positioning of your show

[00:14:56] to attract that specific listener because we want to make sure

[00:15:01] that when they're searching let's say for a keyword,

[00:15:03] that your podcast is one of the top five that pops up

[00:15:06] before they have to scroll their phone.

[00:15:08] And there's little things that we can do not just from a content

[00:15:11] perspective but also from the messaging that people see

[00:15:14] which messaging is just visual, written and spoken.

[00:15:17] So it's what they read, it's what they see when they're encountering

[00:15:20] your podcasts and then eventually it's what they hear

[00:15:22] after you can spend some to click play.

[00:15:25] So the messaging is what attracts them.

[00:15:26] The content is what keeps them listening and keeps them

[00:15:29] coming back.

[00:15:30] So it's a one-two part of the equation.

[00:15:33] And if you have one without the other,

[00:15:35] it's going to be difficult to grow because then we could go

[00:15:37] out and put any strategy in place but we're only going to see

[00:15:40] some success with that strategy.

[00:15:43] Yeah, can you give us some specific examples of like how

[00:15:46] somebody can rework a little bit of that message right

[00:15:49] and then we can do that.

[00:15:50] Let's say the show is already running right?

[00:15:52] And I'm assuming similar if it's like a new show or somebody.

[00:15:55] So a little bit of like, oh, I have to like redo a whole show.

[00:15:58] I think that's a myth is like you can you can relaunch the same

[00:16:01] show right?

[00:16:02] And I remember we experienced something similar when we announced

[00:16:05] hotspot.

[00:16:06] We did some what of a strategy to like relaunch the show

[00:16:10] to the world and we brought a bunch of people that had been on

[00:16:12] the show with it like a five hour live stream and thing and

[00:16:16] we just did some things like this because we went to a lot of

[00:16:16] ways to do that, but we said, I don't know,

[00:16:16] you shot us in the rack for and I think it was like

[00:16:19] attention went back to to that.

[00:16:21] So we are touched to that event.

[00:16:24] So was something specifically that you know,

[00:16:25] people might do, maybe able to do these afternoon even

[00:16:28] like how can they rework their message and how can we

[00:16:30] rework the structure that maybe we have the podcast on and

[00:16:34] provide a win?

[00:16:35] Or is it a matter of driving a lot of traffic at the same

[00:16:41] time.

[00:16:42] Yeah, like I'm curious too.

[00:16:44] It's all the above. Okay, so let's break down the messaging piece and then we'll break down the launch piece because these are really two pillars of a three part formula here

[00:16:50] So the first pillar with the messaging like I said it starts with getting clear on who you are here to serve and when I say in detail

[00:16:56] There's a difference between saying all right

[00:16:59] I have a podcast for overwhelmed parents of toddlers

[00:17:03] Versus saying if you're an overwhelmed parent of a toddler like the word overwhelm is so subjective

[00:17:08] It's only going to capture some people's attention and the problem with it is other people are using the same terms

[00:17:13] So it's not gonna make you stand out from the competition because well

[00:17:16] They're also targeting overwhelmed parents of toddlers. Yeah, but if you can say I am a nutrition coach for

[00:17:23] Parents of two year olds and if you are a parent of a two year old and you are sick and tired of your kid

[00:17:29] Fling in their plate off the dinner table every night after they told you that was exactly what they wanted to eat

[00:17:35] I can help you right there's just a difference there where we can paint that visual picture for someone and it's like so

[00:17:40] I need it. I need it. Is that really

[00:17:44] You know, it's like okay, that's where the overwhelmed comes from this is one simple thing that you can do look through all your podcast messaging

[00:17:50] Your podcast title your episode titles your episode descriptions

[00:17:55] Notice anywhere I call them feeling words notice anywhere that you use feeling words stressed frustrated anxious overwhelmed and

[00:18:03] Ask yourself well, what's causing them to feel that way? What's actually happening in their life

[00:18:10] That's causing them to have that feeling and that's gonna automatically write there take you one level deeper

[00:18:15] There's a lot of ways that we can make something really specific and that with things that we can add into the language to make something specific

[00:18:21] But that question right there will take you a level deeper than most people are doing and it's gonna help you stand out more because most people are not communicating in that way

[00:18:28] Yeah, so that's one example there but then from there. Yes, we want to drive traffic to the show and that's part of what's built into the launch strategy that we teach

[00:18:38] Which is you know like I said it caveat at this is beginning the chart. It's not the end all be all and here's why because the charts fluctuate every week

[00:18:45] Yeah

[00:18:45] They naturally there are natural fluctuations that happen in the charts every week

[00:18:49] So yes, you might launch and because you're intentionally driving that traffic over a 24 hour window

[00:18:54] The goal is to rank why because we want to know how many downloads how much traffic it's gonna take to keep you ranking

[00:19:01] Then we can begin to build a growth strategy around that to help

[00:19:05] Consistently drive that traffic over time and we've had clients who have done this and there are many of them

[00:19:09] I get tell you so many stories

[00:19:10] But one of them in particular she launched her podcast about four years ago

[00:19:15] She ran when she launched it got a lot of traction out the gate

[00:19:18] She's consistently released in episode every week since then

[00:19:22] She's now in the top I think one and a half percent on listen notes which we know that takes into account all total podcast

[00:19:27] Even those that aren't active, but most people who have podcasts aren't even showing up and listen notes

[00:19:32] Right like with a ranking so like it just goes to show like she's been doing the right activity

[00:19:36] Over this span of time that momentum in that traction is continuing to build and her podcast is her number one source of clients for her business

[00:19:45] So yeah, it takes time

[00:19:47] But also we got to make sure that we know what levers to pull in order to bring about the results that you want a

[00:19:53] Love it

[00:19:55] I as you were

[00:19:56] Shamed the the example about the feeling words and all this, you know, remember

[00:20:01] I think people start podcasts for the wrong reasons

[00:20:04] All right, I think people start podcasts because they want to get famous because they want to you know have this like crazy

[00:20:11] attraction, you know

[00:20:12] Come come come listen to me, Hannah, you know, I'm the expert

[00:20:16] Right

[00:20:19] But I think it's a piffy as you were explained this right I in the mornings

[00:20:23] We have we have a new school for Luca, right and I'm like okay

[00:20:27] I have this problems. I have the problem that it's a 30-minute drive to get to that point

[00:20:33] And I've been having a blast but sometimes you know they don't want to listen to papa talk right all the time or when it when I pick them up

[00:20:40] Right

[00:20:40] I also have the problem that I want to teach Luca Spanish, right in a fun way and kind of review the lessons that they're reviewing in school

[00:20:48] So I'm like okay, well how these problems that make me feel sometimes overwhelmed right because maybe

[00:20:54] I'm not dead again in the time or you know for whatever reasons

[00:20:56] You know we always see all little guilt in me like oh this time, right?

[00:21:00] It's like why can't we create that for 25 minutes?

[00:21:04] You know because I see all the parents in drop-off lines to make life a little bit easier for this parents

[00:21:09] It's like the drop-off story, right?

[00:21:11] So it's like it could be a podcast for kids that parents and kids can enjoy together

[00:21:16] Doing drop-off times or pick-up times that are normally 15 to 20 minutes, right?

[00:21:22] And as soon as I get jumps on he's excited to listen to the story and there's something cool

[00:21:25] Right, and that was an epiphany hat like driving back and he solves a very specific problem, right?

[00:21:31] And then you know my marketing mind went like oh this is crazy. I'm like how many parents are on drop-off lines

[00:21:35] You know everything today and like but he started with a problem that I had right?

[00:21:40] With our show to the prime initially that he solves was

[00:21:44] We were very curious about how other people were turning their content to profit

[00:21:47] We want to learn from from from the best and take you know no gets here and there and kind of document that

[00:21:52] And he has shifted quite a bit so thank you for like illustrating that and it's more as in

[00:21:59] How can we add value to the person that experiencing that same

[00:22:03] Problem you know that we might be having or like who the same problems that we had maybe five years ago

[00:22:09] Right, so I think it's like instead of looking at us on my could this spot guess it's gonna do so much for us is like how can these

[00:22:15] spot guys do so much for them am I right am I just

[00:22:20] Spot on it also yeah, well to point out too. I mean with that example

[00:22:24] What you're describing is not an expert focus podcast?

[00:22:28] You know it's not like I'm gonna sit here and teach you you know how to grow your business to eight figures like no

[00:22:31] It's an entertainment podcast, but yet it still solves a problem and you said something there that is so good

[00:22:36] And I want to call this out because this is this is the this is the shift that needs to happen

[00:22:40] Mentally for us to be able to fully take ownership of our podcasts to really show up in that way that everybody says like we need a

[00:22:45] Surf we need to add value, but how do you actually do that?

[00:22:47] So what you said was it solved the problem that I had and I feel like for at least those of us that are entrepreneurs and business owners

[00:22:55] How many businesses are created because it solved the problem that you had and for this same reason?

[00:23:01] That's why a lot of podcasts exist too because it solves a problem that you had

[00:23:06] So if you could just like go back in time and think about where were you at that point in your

[00:23:10] In your life not from this expert level of awareness that you might have now

[00:23:14] But then what were the problems that you were experiencing?

[00:23:17] Yeah, maybe you started your business to solve in the first place and then yes flipping the script on making your podcast

[00:23:22] I call it ego centric versus listen or centric if you have an ego centric podcast

[00:23:26] Which look I'm guilty the first several years of my podcast

[00:23:29] I was in it for me. I wasn't in it from our listeners

[00:23:31] Yeah, I thought my listeners wouldn't know that because I'm like oh, I want to be this expert and let's talk about later

[00:23:36] And all that no it was a worse mentality that I could have approached it with because it

[00:23:41] Prevented me from being able to show up and serve my listeners

[00:23:44] It was the thing getting in the way and we're humans at the end of the day

[00:23:49] I mean look if if 93% of communication is nonverbal

[00:23:53] Do you think listeners are picking up on that? Yes, they're not picking up on what you're saying

[00:23:58] You know the 7% that is words. They're picking up on the 93% and

[00:24:03] If your energy is that you know, I'm the expert not you know you should listen to me because I'm great like

[00:24:07] Listeners you're gonna feel that way and I know this is not often a constant thing

[00:24:10] You know if there are people listening right now that are like I don't do that

[00:24:13] But yet maybe you're doing it you're not fully aware of it, but that is the mental shift that needs to happen

[00:24:18] Yeah, yeah

[00:24:19] You talked about a tried and retain a dinners and other party in there as well

[00:24:24] Which is the conversions right now look at your website you recently did a Q&A around that growth or conversions

[00:24:32] right

[00:24:33] But I'm I'm curious right on on that part of the process on what you do when you're

[00:24:39] Running these launches for for the podcast right is their specific

[00:24:43] Point of leverage right that would you recommend people to focus on

[00:24:48] Beside obviously knowing exactly who they're talking to what problem and I'm guessing, you know having as well some sort of

[00:24:55] Product or something right that people want to get how do you get people to actually move from the platform to take action

[00:25:02] Right there's is known that people that listen to party because they have more

[00:25:07] Purchasing power right there's been research done into that and everybody wants a piece of the pie everybody comes in

[00:25:13] I was like I am gonna like some money right with this bike as we started it like that right

[00:25:18] We we started like we're gonna get thousands of people to get a lead magnets and they're gonna go through her funnels

[00:25:24] You know everything changed real quick

[00:25:27] We realized I was not the model that that worked for us and then like you said right after making it for them

[00:25:33] You know being of value

[00:25:35] Rather than making it egocentric like we realized for us

[00:25:39] It was more of a relationship building show

[00:25:42] But I'm curious right again based on the expert base businesses that are

[00:25:47] Making this podcast right what are maybe some of these

[00:25:50] Conversion levers that you've seen or not only that right like what some of the conversion methods

[00:25:56] You already kind of mentioned that there's different types of that they can do

[00:26:01] Yeah, this is the million dollar question. How do we move people to action because

[00:26:05] If you're an expert based business and you're launching your podcast as a lead generation tool

[00:26:10] Then your number one goal is most likely going to be to drive traffic back to your business

[00:26:16] It's a great way to monetize a podcast because you keep a hundred percent of the creative control and a hundred percent of the profit

[00:26:24] But some people also want to turn the podcast itself into a revenue stream

[00:26:29] And we work with people who are like I don't have a business behind the podcast

[00:26:32] And I don't want a business yet. They still aren't expert in their own right with sharing their message

[00:26:36] Maybe they're public speaker and all through this sort of thing

[00:26:39] And so at the end of the day whether you want sponsors and advertisers or whether you ultimately want to drive traffic back to your own thing

[00:26:47] The same conversion principles apply and so whenever we're looking to move traffic

[00:26:52] There's some very practical things we can do which will dig into and then there's also the psychology piece of it

[00:26:57] So the psychology piece we've unpacked that a lot already

[00:26:59] Which is knowing what you saw for and also helping people see that your solution

[00:27:06] Creating that natural desire and demand for it because they're trusting you as the expert

[00:27:12] I'm gonna give you an example

[00:27:12] So let's say that you have to like this stomach ache that keeps happening and it's like a 11 o'clock every night

[00:27:17] And it's been happening for the last week and it wakes you up at night

[00:27:20] And now you're kind of getting concerned because you're like all right

[00:27:22] I thought if we go away, it's been going on for a week like maybe I should go get this check out

[00:27:26] So you go to the doctor and you're like okay, look you tell them all the symptoms that having this problem

[00:27:30] And he's like you know

[00:27:31] Yeah, some of our patients do complain about that. Let me write you this prescription go take this

[00:27:35] Come back in a week if it's still bothering you now

[00:27:38] There's a segment of the population that will go do that and they will be maybe fine in a week

[00:27:42] And they'll never follow up and that's that that segment of the population is called not your ideal listener

[00:27:47] That is not the people that we are going after right

[00:27:50] We want the people who want to figure out why the pain is happening in the first place and how to solve for for good

[00:27:55] Without just like throwing band-aids at the issue

[00:27:57] So let's say you're one of those people and you're like all right. I need a second opinion that first doctor

[00:28:01] He didn't really take his time with me when listening to go and you find another doctor and they sit down with you

[00:28:05] And make you feel like you were the only patient in the office that day

[00:28:08] And he says now when did this start happening?

[00:28:11] And you're like well, about a week ago and he said and it happens at night doesn't it?

[00:28:15] It wakes you up. You're like yeah, how did you know that?

[00:28:18] Probably around you know 11 o'clock midnight and you're like

[00:28:20] Wait a minute. How how did you know that?

[00:28:23] And the doctor proceeds to tell you the symptoms and in such detail that you're like okay first of all not only does a doctor know what they're talking about

[00:28:30] Surely they must also have this solution and I want whatever the solution is because you get it

[00:28:35] Right, and not so what just happened in that exchange right there is that first of all that doctor

[00:28:40] Was feeling one of the five emotional needs that we all have as human beings

[00:28:44] No matter race, creed color background

[00:28:46] We all have these five emotional needs and one of them is to feel hurt and to feel understood

[00:28:51] So a lot of times what people say you know and we'll talk about like problems right and we've been taught to speak to the pain and there's a lot of like

[00:28:58] Bro marketing out there where people are like oh hitting you over the head with the pain your terrible person because you have this problem

[00:29:03] We're like shaming you for it like that's not what we're doing here

[00:29:06] We're just communicating in a way that shows someone we understand the problem with such a level of specificity

[00:29:12] Yeah, but not only will earn their trust

[00:29:14] But would also increase their belief in you that you have the solution

[00:29:17] That's what has to happen before the action can take place before they go click through to get on your email

[00:29:22] Les or join your workshop or purchase your thing or book a call or whatever it is

[00:29:26] So that piece has to happen first and we can begin to create that natural desire and demand throughout our episodes as we speak to the problems

[00:29:33] We're also going to be creating relief for them. They're gonna feel relief

[00:29:37] And then to the point about how podcasting just comes with so much purchasing power

[00:29:41] There was a study that was done with the box media did it recently

[00:29:44] Where podcast hosts people trust them five times more than like remember those TV celebrities that would call them and look like air Jordan

[00:29:52] Right they come in a door some product might be a TV

[00:29:54] Media person or like a celebrity and you'd be like oh I go to have that right and

[00:29:58] Seven times they trust people set a podcast host seven times more than they trust internet influencers

[00:30:04] All right there was like the internet influencer and era where people were like oh the influencer the all-mine influencer

[00:30:09] You know now that's kind of behind that right like

[00:30:11] Podcast hosts have the most authority and trust building abilities then pretty much any other type of quote-unquote influencer out there

[00:30:22] And so when you think about that it's really just the purchasing powers there your audience wants to take action

[00:30:29] We have to figure out what's preventing them from taking action right now

[00:30:32] So a lot of times it comes back to the messaging it comes back to how you're positioning what you do

[00:30:36] If you're always just like pushing your offer is this solution?

[00:30:40] They're not gonna trust you because they're gonna see through that and be like oh you're just trying to make a sale

[00:30:43] When you actually push like what is the solution that your offer can help them achieve

[00:30:49] All now we're talking so then it comes down to the strategy of this okay, so let's say and this was something that we

[00:30:56] Did not realize was a problem with our podcast for a very long time until I dug into the data and was like oh

[00:31:03] No wonder people aren't converting from the show because they're not even here in the call to action at the time

[00:31:09] We had like 32 minutes was like our average episode length yeah, I might call it actions

[00:31:14] We're always at the end of the episode and like okay

[00:31:17] This is weird we're not getting any leads from the podcast right now. Like what is happening this is strength like why is it why are people not converting?

[00:31:23] And then of course this is where a lot of people experience this problem and they're like okay

[00:31:26] I'm gonna go change up the lead magnet. I'm gonna change the call to action

[00:31:29] I'm gonna you know try to change like whatever it is that they're saying to try to people to action

[00:31:34] And when I looked at our listener consumption people were consuming like 60% of the episode

[00:31:38] That's like around 18 minutes and like oh

[00:31:42] That's why it's happening because they're not even here in the freaking call to action at the end of the episode

[00:31:47] So we shorten the length of our episode

[00:31:49] It's now look I'm giving this not as blanked advice you're gonna have to do these numbers for yourself to see where your listener consumption is right before us

[00:31:55] It meant shortening the episode now our episodes are on 18 to 20 minutes and

[00:32:00] The calls to actions are embedded a little bit before the end of the episode and now you can go look in our sales leads list

[00:32:07] And you can see where people are saying like where did you hear about us? Where did you hear about podcast long time

[00:32:10] Listener podcast podcast long time listener and it's like okay

[00:32:13] That's cool, right yeah, yeah now it's working so so cool

[00:32:19] And as we hit the 29th minute in the episode you can go to that

[00:32:25] Enough for you if you want any help with like content ecosystem and you know content of

[00:32:30] You just reach out to us social media

[00:32:35] You mentioned you mentioned data. I right you mentioned metrics as we're diving in we talked a lot in the past about you know your seven day your 30 day obviously your consumption

[00:32:47] There we use a few platforms to kind of monitor this like on our side we publish from mega found right then we have chartable

[00:32:54] Chartable recently went through like a blackout thing where like no data was coming through so everything was wrong for a few a few weeks

[00:33:03] What is what what is like the key metrics for long form podcast and that you know that

[00:33:08] Like the ones that you guys help launch and produce

[00:33:11] That you guys are always looking for on how can people find those right it can be some overwhelming right and we also

[00:33:18] You also have the caveat of video content as well, right you have your

[00:33:23] You know in our specific case you have your main episode audio your video and you have your clips right

[00:33:28] In our specific case clips

[00:33:30] Drive a lot of subscribers for YouTube, but then the consumption the longer consumption happens on the audio podcast

[00:33:38] Right so almost like YouTube keeps those in mind of that type of audience some of them translating to podcasts listeners are different

[00:33:45] type of

[00:33:47] Consumer as well

[00:33:49] So what are some of the things that that you look for as soon as we start doing that YouTube funnel

[00:33:52] I can get very overwhelming right we and then we product audio podcast is not very clear

[00:33:58] A lot of platforms say different numbers like what are you look for?

[00:34:02] Yeah, this is a great question. There's so much unpack here. I feel like we have to reverse engineer the process a little bit

[00:34:07] So a lot of times what happened is people will go out and they'll be like oh my god

[00:34:10] I'm gonna post on social media and start a YouTube channel and do these things to drive traffic back to the podcast

[00:34:14] And they'll try to track and see like how many people are going back to the podcast and all of this, you know

[00:34:18] Whereas really let's start by looking at the people that you already have listening to the podcast

[00:34:24] How long are they listening listen or consumption is one of those metrics that is getting a lot of buzz right now

[00:34:28] But it's a metric that also didn't always used to be available to us like this didn't exist in so a few years ago

[00:34:34] And so you know digging into that data if you want to look at it kind of loosely on the surface

[00:34:40] You know go to Apple podcast your podcast connect apple, you know if your podcast is listed on apple

[00:34:45] It's gonna give you that data for those episodes

[00:34:47] You can run those averages, you know total out the last 10 episodes that you have see how the average length is and see how long people are listening on average

[00:34:55] And then you can base a lot of decisions from there because there are a lot of listeners and infer in our instance

[00:35:01] Right this may not be true for everyone but in our case over 70% of our listeners listen on apple

[00:35:06] So for us that gives us a pretty good read on the majority of our listeners base to say like

[00:35:11] Okay, this is probably pretty applicable across the board if you want to go

[00:35:15] Double deeper you can dig into that on Spotify as well and that can give you more of a complete picture a lot more listeners are starting to listen on Spotify

[00:35:21] They're picking up some traction there

[00:35:22] So we definitely want to look at you know how long or listeners listening are people dropping off

[00:35:28] This is where the Spotify data can also be really interesting because they also show like the number of impressions

[00:35:34] Your podcast is getting versus the number of plays and where in the episodes people are dropping off

[00:35:41] Are they listening to a minute to three minutes to five minutes or they get through the whole thing or they come in back for more

[00:35:46] So these types of things can begin to help us figure out

[00:35:51] And your listeners will tell you through the data what they want

[00:35:54] What topics do they want more up this is another thing that we look at which is which episodes have the highest consumption

[00:36:01] And which ones really peaked in terms of seven day downloads where they outpaste other episodes

[00:36:07] In terms of initial seven day downloads because that will clue you into what topics to talk about more often

[00:36:13] Maybe bring on a guest expert to talk about that or approach that topic from a different angle and

[00:36:19] That can help on the content side to really figure out. Okay, this is more of what my audience wants

[00:36:24] Let me create more content like that because then in turn when you're kind of applying back some of those messaging principles

[00:36:29] We were talking about you're doing SEO for your podcast, but you can begin to then reverse engineer and say okay

[00:36:34] I know this is what listeners want we've got that piece dialed in we know listeners are sticking around

[00:36:39] They're coming back for more that seems to be working focus there first

[00:36:44] Now let's figure out how we can get more people to the show and so that's where for us

[00:36:49] This kind of gets kind of fun with the content we're like with Instagram right now

[00:36:52] What we're testing is you know if I do like a little short form clip

[00:36:56] I don't do them all the time, but if I do them

[00:36:58] Giving them value in that clip and in the caption so that if they never go back to the podcast

[00:37:03] They've still got in value from something that I've put out into the world

[00:37:06] But then I'm also opening a loop and giving them a reason to go listen to the podcast

[00:37:10] Because they're gonna want to close that loop and they're brain to go get the answer

[00:37:13] And I'll just say comment below the episode number and then we have a mini chat automation that goes in sends them the link to the episode

[00:37:19] And we get a lot of people doing that so that's really interesting because then you can begin to start to see like okay

[00:37:23] Where are people coming from you know how are we converting that traffic and then but first fix the leaky holes in your bucket

[00:37:29] Yeah, and then you can start figuring out. Okay now where are we driving that

[00:37:33] Traffic where they coming from oh so good. I've recently fighting the microphone of the

[00:37:40] One of the episodes we recorded maybe the last six today's or so was about the hook to a girl

[00:37:46] Haley something on that we're like kind of breaking down what happened socially and on content and what she was doing and

[00:37:52] That has been like a 10 next down look compared to any others on YouTube specifically because there's a lot of people that consume that and

[00:37:59] You know like click through rate was probably the highest that we've seen also in the like 90 days

[00:38:03] On is like an example of maybe this event is happening and you kind of write that wave on that topic

[00:38:11] But also it can be an indicator but at the same time I think is a double edge sword because

[00:38:17] We personally don't like doing a lot of that type of content right so it's like okay

[00:38:22] Where do I concede right and I think is that the compromise that we have to like go back on fourth

[00:38:27] Because it's really simple like you know last night as a time of these recording was the

[00:38:32] Personcial debate right so we could potentially grab some of that and be like okay through the length of contents

[00:38:37] Profit what are some lessons that we can extract from here right top of deal

[00:38:41] But sometimes maybe that's not the content that we really feel fulfilled to do right so I think it's like

[00:38:47] To me I maybe I'm wrong. I don't know but that's how I feel today with like so much stuff

[00:38:53] Like how much do we cater for what people are actually looking for but does that actually help

[00:39:00] That people that really want to help and also ultimately it helped me because if I don't enjoy the process of creation

[00:39:05] Then nothing comes out and then I don't help anybody right so

[00:39:08] I think it's important to to understand at least

[00:39:12] That and

[00:39:14] Be okay with that right cuz like fancy likes or in type of topics. I like certain type of topics

[00:39:18] We can experiment and we can okay once we create it with like hey is this something that we really enjoy doing

[00:39:23] And then how are people responding to that and then if like you really enjoy doing it

[00:39:28] But there's no response from people then we don't have to blame others. It's like okay is our decision to continue this path

[00:39:34] But the consequences that many maybe we have less

[00:39:37] Consumption on the other side right so it's like it's almost like a given take and is this content

[00:39:42] You know battle and I feel like if you go if we go too far on both ends

[00:39:46] Then we don't end up fulfilled in any like we don't help anybody or we don't help ourselves in in the sense of creation

[00:39:53] And it can be really nasty so I love that you

[00:39:57] Share like exactly you know what to look for and start improving and getting better right and trying to find your own mess

[00:40:02] You're trying to find your motivation to continue to create so cool

[00:40:06] Yeah, well and also exactly what you just said there which is if you're not

[00:40:10] Excited to create it that energy is gonna come through and ultimately that's gonna work against you

[00:40:14] The other thing to look at when you are digging into the data and let's say you do have an episode like that one is a great example

[00:40:20] It's like oh my gosh, it's doing 10x better than any of our other episodes

[00:40:23] But was it a fluke

[00:40:25] What else could have contributed to the fact that that episode did really well and like you said with the debate?

[00:40:30] You know that could be that there was a point in time where that topic was trending

[00:40:35] And so you did kind of capitalize on that a little bit

[00:40:38] But maybe it's not something that you're excited about or that you want to continue creating or that's not gonna be trending tomorrow or next week

[00:40:45] And so therefore if you were to release another episode on that

[00:40:47] You're not gonna get the same kind of traction

[00:40:50] So instead of looking at you know, okay, which ones were just the biggest hits?

[00:40:54] Look at which ones are consistently higher for us. It's anytime we talk about conversions

[00:40:59] Podcasts conversions as episodes always outperform. It's wild to me

[00:41:02] But I'm like clearly this is what our people love to talk about they love to know everything about how we converting listeners

[00:41:08] The other metric that I didn't mention a moment ago. This was a little bit more of like a

[00:41:12] Hidden metric because it's not one that gets talked about a lot

[00:41:14] But it's one that has a lot of influence on the podcast charts and it's new daily followers

[00:41:22] New daily followers show the show a lot of people are always pushing like review the show rate the show share the show with your friends

[00:41:28] All that's good and fine

[00:41:29] Yeah, but at the end of the day we should be driving our listeners to hit the follow button. Why?

[00:41:33] Cuz it shows intent to listen and

[00:41:36] Another thing you know when it comes to going all in we touched on this a little bit ago

[00:41:40] But like truly being committed to the process of podcasting that true level of commitment

[00:41:46] Not everybody has that not everybody wants that and that's okay

[00:41:50] Podcasting might not be for you if that's the case, right?

[00:41:53] But if you really want to grow your show you have to be fully committed to doing whatever it takes and

[00:41:58] Like Dave Jackson always says being willing to do what others won't

[00:42:01] Yeah, and so if you're if you're like okay. I know that new daily subscribers is a really powerful metric

[00:42:07] I need to be focusing on that

[00:42:09] Now what activity can I take every day to get my show in front of let's just start with one new listener and I'm not saying go post on social media and be like

[00:42:18] Oh check the box. I did it. I got my show in front of new listeners today, right like no

[00:42:22] How can you connect with someone?

[00:42:24] Maybe it's a reddit red maybe it's a Facebook group maybe it's on LinkedIn

[00:42:28] How can you get your show in front of them as the solution always seeking to help and add value

[00:42:34] How can you go in there and maybe answer questions and be like, you know what? I got a episode about this

[00:42:38] And I think you might love do you like me to DM me the link?

[00:42:41] Yes, please DM me the link. Okay great send them the link check the box now because now you truly have reached someone

[00:42:47] Outside of your warm audience which are all they've been already the people who know like and trust you and follow you on social media

[00:42:51] It's not gonna grow your podcast just posting a social media

[00:42:54] And so really kind of figuring out okay here's the metrics that the platforms are looking for

[00:43:00] Here's the metrics that indicate to me how engaged my community is

[00:43:04] Now how can I leverage those metrics and to me the best strategies are the ones that are simple in the most leverage

[00:43:10] Where they're easy to execute and they are

[00:43:14] Helping you get more out of what you're already doing versus adding more to your plate. Yeah, yeah

[00:43:21] That reminds me of I should I like strategy I like some to label he came here and he was sharing how

[00:43:26] For like a year that's all he did he will go into groups and then when people were talking about a specific problem

[00:43:32] He'll be like oh I actually have an episode that talk on that it's on minute five

[00:43:37] Here you can listen to right here and he would go on every day. He'll try to find

[00:43:41] One person right at the end of the year that's 365 new listeners

[00:43:47] You know or if you're like my brother and he takes multiple days of vacation is like maybe 200 new

[00:43:52] There's multiple

[00:43:55] I'm not the one who listen to the year

[00:43:57] Halita has great at this too over at yet media

[00:44:00] I've heard her share on a podcast episode before how she was originally just super scrappy with it and she would send out

[00:44:06] 2500

[00:44:08] DMs on LinkedIn because I don't think LinkedIn either they didn't have a cap or they don't have a cap right on how many DMs you could send out

[00:44:14] And now they have an automated process in place for this but she was sending out that volume of LinkedIn messages

[00:44:20] I can't remember if it was per day or per week, but it was like a super crazy amount where it's like okay

[00:44:23] That's probably out of reach for most people but can you reach one new listener today? Yeah, I think most of us can do that

[00:44:28] Yeah, I'm sorry. I'm talking about this. I'm thinking you know for somebody that has been public asking for a little bit and has kind of

[00:44:35] A roster of guests an episode that already have

[00:44:39] Should be fairly easy right like you can literally have like a little

[00:44:43] Spread sheet where you have the guest name, you know the link of the episode and

[00:44:49] at a

[00:44:49] Call them that says problem that it solves and then you go, you know

[00:44:55] Podcast launch there we go and and maybe I know I want to say this many word that is talked about and you put the minute of where you talked about

[00:45:03] It kind of reminds me of some about I don't remember where I got this one from but you know a lot of people when they

[00:45:09] Are talking and they say oh I have this problem. Oh I have a book for you. Have a book that I just read that you know you would love

[00:45:15] It's gonna solve that problem. They give people that book

[00:45:18] But then the thing is I won't have all this huge book to listen to right and yes, I deal with one them to consume the whole episode

[00:45:25] But I love that somebody who said one said well just mark put a little bookmark where you want them to read

[00:45:32] Until the man hey look this is you know you told me about this problem

[00:45:36] This you know chapters specifically talks about it here you go and then if they're interested

[00:45:42] They will read their rest of the book and I think it's the same exact thing with podcasting right tell them hey

[00:45:48] Here's the episode in minute 10. We talk about this specific problem that you're having right now

[00:45:54] And then if they enjoy it, they might just give it all this and then

[00:45:58] Start listening to other of the episodes as well

[00:46:02] Totally also this brings to mind that all there's like this old saying like in the copywriting world like

[00:46:06] Your goal is not to get them to read the whole thing. It's just to get them to read the next sentence and

[00:46:11] The same is even going back to listener consumption like we had a listener question come in that I just actually an episode

[00:46:15] Just released on the podcast talking about this. How do we get listeners listening longer? How do we keep them hook how do we get them coming back right now?

[00:46:21] How do we actually do that and you know it's a valid question but also my advice I was like wait a minute

[00:46:28] First of all the goal is not to get them to listen till the end

[00:46:30] The goal is to get them to listen till the end of the first minute and then the end of the next minute

[00:46:35] And then the end of the next minute and how are we keeping them hooked at the whole episode?

[00:46:38] So now they're either getting to the end and wanting to come back for more so it's kind of the same thing right where it's like

[00:46:43] Here's a carrot on the stick. I'm gonna show you exactly how to solve this problem go to minute 507 and then

[00:46:48] Usually for context. They're gonna listen a few minutes before after and hey, they might even listen to the whole thing

[00:46:52] And maybe you will pick up a new follower for your show for like you never know

[00:46:56] It's I think you know the Japanese with anime have that figure out it's crazy

[00:47:01] I don't know if you will watch any of that coin but there's been some shows there that here

[00:47:04] We're nervous that may I'm fun sometimes start watching on a half to be very careful because if I start episode one

[00:47:09] They're so good. I create an ad you know the episode that you're like

[00:47:14] I got a good bit, but I cannot like live without knowing what's happening next and it's like you'll move into the next episode

[00:47:21] So you know consumption of that type of media was like okay these people they need to maintain audiences

[00:47:26] Nor for just the next episode, but also like they have to get them excited because they have to wait a week to the next episode get released

[00:47:33] Right, so I think that's a good example

[00:47:35] I know you go back and I like should we produce the episodes that way? We're like, you know we kind of stop the episode halfway through and what I say

[00:47:42] By the way the secrets come back to the next episode and then halfway through the next episode

[00:47:46] That's a new guest starts like I think that could be a cool concept

[00:47:49] But anyways, no

[00:47:52] If the episode is really is no

[00:47:55] I'm just saying

[00:47:56] What here's what I would say okay this is how I always break it down is okay if you're gonna open loops in an episode

[00:48:01] Which is a age old psychological trick new Netflix does it whole-lood does it and it made everybody

[00:48:07] Does it on other platforms? Why are you not doing it for your podcast because our brain doesn't like to have on answered questions

[00:48:12] And we don't like to have open loops it creates a natural tension that we want to bring to resolution

[00:48:16] So I say open loops throughout the entire episode

[00:48:18] You can kind of look at it like this where it's like okay the carrot on the stick

[00:48:22] You know, let's say okay I'm gonna break down the three things to help you to XYZ and you're really gonna love number three

[00:48:26] Because it's gonna help you solve this problem and achieve this benefit

[00:48:29] Well now you've just opened a loop because okay, maybe they want to just jump straight ahead to number three

[00:48:34] But usually we're sequential in the way we think as humans we're like I'm gonna listen to number one

[00:48:38] Because then it's gonna apply number two is gonna stem from then to number three right so now we're already like

[00:48:42] Future pacing them within the episode itself and then I did this at the end of every single episode of me doing it since day one

[00:48:48] And I'm like coming up in the next episode

[00:48:50] Here's the problem we solve to help you achieve this thing

[00:48:53] Yeah, and so it's carrot on a stick and and here's here is where people get this wrong

[00:48:58] Where in the episode they're like teasing stuff and then if you were to just kind of end it and be like come back next week

[00:49:04] Well, you're gonna erode trust because we're gonna be like you just wasted my time right?

[00:49:08] So we want to make sure we're delivering along the promise of the episode and then opening a loop at the end for the next episode

[00:49:14] And that works really well. Yeah, I love how you put it I'm on board on how you put it right because that is

[00:49:20] You know you're delivering on the promise

[00:49:24] Sometimes the explanation that gray line in there's not to clear, you know and falls into the clickbaits

[00:49:29] How do things wait?

[00:49:30] It's like this was a straightaway considered by the way. No, it was just an example

[00:49:34] But I just want to put that out there

[00:49:37] You're backing line, you know backing line

[00:49:41] According it has been an absolute pleasure having here in the show

[00:49:45] Where can people find you where can people find your podcast is there any other last tips that you want to share with anybody before you we say goodbye

[00:49:53] Thank you for having me. This has been such a blast so much fun if you are loving this conversation and you want more of these like psychological tips

[00:50:01] How do we really tap into because at the end of the day

[00:50:03] Podcasting is all about humans talking to humans

[00:50:06] We do forget that but at its core that's what podcasting is so when you can understand how your humans think the people in your audience

[00:50:15] It's gonna make it so much easier

[00:50:17] Not only to dial in that messaging but get the positioning right for your show and ultimately grow your show

[00:50:22] Monetize your show and convert those listeners to clients so if you want to come hang out with me on my podcast

[00:50:26] You can type my name in whatever podcast platform that you listen to it'll pop up inside our secrets to the to a top 100

[00:50:32] Podcast is the name of the show and you can also check us out pod launch HQ.com

[00:50:37] If you want to come hang out with me on one of our live workshops or book a call and talk about next steps as far as getting your podcast launch and ranked

[00:50:44] Yeah by the way guys we've jumped in a call with her

[00:50:47] Ablor mind is so good. I was like, according we need to be in our lives

[00:50:50] You know together forever and ever and we we share our mastermind is so cool and we're just very blessed every in our in our life

[00:50:57] And with all the insights that she shares in the industry

[00:51:01] So go connect with her or the links are gonna be right here below fun see anything else that you want to share before we hit out

[00:51:07] It was grateful thank you

[00:51:08] I want to take on the lesson that you just share you know until the next episode

[00:51:14] But unfortunately I don't know exactly what

[00:51:17] We solve it. I guess what your best bro here Louise does know and we have the amazing Korean Fisher coming next

[00:51:25] And she helps local businesses to drive more appointments booked and calls. Let's go

[00:51:31] We want to bring people into our shops whether they're online or in person

[00:51:36] And we want to have them on call so we can help them solve their problem there you go

[00:51:40] Koreans gonna help us do that in the next episode

[00:51:42] What about that?

[00:51:44] There we go

[00:51:45] Korean proofs

[00:51:47] Korean proof yeah, there we go

[00:51:49] Awesome guys who that said

[00:51:51] Thank you so much for tuning to the content's profit podcast go ahead and follow the show in your favorite podcast in platform

[00:51:56] I'm not social media at these brosco

[00:51:59] That is right if the corner here help you move one step closer towards the growth of your podcast

[00:52:04] Please don't forget to share this episode

[00:52:06] And of course, don't forget to leave a five-star review or even better just hit follow follow

[00:52:11] Friends you then music is over man way you keep talking and also that didn't you know that I'm learning bye guys