Unexpected Ways to Monetize Long Form Content & Finding Hidden Value with Alex Sanfilippo & Tom Rossi

[00:00:00] Hey, welcome back to Content Is Profit. Today we chose to rerun one of the most exciting episodes I'll say.

[00:00:08] This was an episode where we had the great Alex and Filippo, which is the CEO and founder of PodMatch,

[00:00:14] an incredible software that connects creators and provides a lot of solutions, especially in the podcasting industry.

[00:00:21] And Tom Rossi, the CEO of Buzzsprout, which is a platform where people host their podcasts.

[00:00:27] We had the pleasure to have them both in our studio and we talked about the hidden value of content creation.

[00:00:33] And there's a lot of principles that we went there. So this episode actually released two to three months ago, but it's still so good.

[00:00:39] We were just in a mastermind a couple days ago and Tom came in and he talked about the importance of team members.

[00:00:46] So in this episode, it just reminded me that this episode we had in there, we had to re-release it also.

[00:00:51] We're recording a ton of new stuff that's coming into the studio. So that's going to be coming right after this.

[00:00:56] But again, we got incredible feedback and I don't want you to miss a lot of the information here.

[00:01:01] Keep an eye out for the frameworks and some of the strategies that Alex and Tom are using to run their content, what they see in the industry.

[00:01:10] Tom has this 50,000 feet view that most people miss.

[00:01:14] And Alex is like in the forefront of the technology of platforms like podcasting and how he's helping a lot of people increase revenues and help their business.

[00:01:24] So with that being said, enjoy the show.

[00:01:26] We live in an industry which loves to tell us that the only way to value your podcast is based on the number of downloads.

[00:01:33] That's just not true.

[00:01:35] If you really believe that what you do helps somebody else, it's your duty to put it out into the world.

[00:01:40] But at the same time, we need to be educated. Like, what does it take for us to do this?

[00:01:44] Genius. Everything. Just four guys talking about stuff.

[00:01:49] We call that the porn set.

[00:01:51] My girlfriend will come in and she'll say, is this a podcast? I promise, I promise it's a podcast.

[00:01:57] It's not hard to fix. That's the thing. You just have to set yourself up for success.

[00:02:01] And right now the data shows that over 50% of people quit before reaching eight episodes.

[00:02:05] It's because people have this perception of like, oh, I'm going to hit record and it's going to get out there and everyone's going to see it.

[00:02:09] And then you realize, okay, podcasting, this, what we're doing right now is 10% of the job, right?

[00:02:14] And there's the 90% that you might not find fun.

[00:02:16] Somebody might be listening to this and they might be thinking, that's a lot of work. That's a lot of effort.

[00:02:20] That's a lot of effort.

[00:02:21] Welcome to podcast.

[00:02:23] Hey, I'm Luis.

[00:02:25] And I'm Luis.

[00:02:27] And you're listening to the Content is Profit Podcast.

[00:02:31] Welcome everybody to Content is Profit Podcast Town Hall Edition.

[00:02:39] Hey, second time we do this. We had you on the first time, right Alex?

[00:02:42] And now today we have a special guest. Well, both special guests.

[00:02:46] He said we only have one.

[00:02:50] I'm never coming back.

[00:02:51] This is it. I'm done. Unless I'm special.

[00:02:53] We're popping the cherry of somebody.

[00:02:56] Tom Rossi, man. Welcome from Buzzsprout.

[00:02:59] Yeah, thanks for having me.

[00:03:00] Absolutely.

[00:03:01] In your amazing studio.

[00:03:02] Well, thank you so much.

[00:03:03] Well, thank you.

[00:03:04] Somebody has to clean it.

[00:03:06] And Alex, obviously, you know, pod match you and you've been so good to us, man, this last few months.

[00:03:12] And we consider you a brother now.

[00:03:14] Same.

[00:03:15] You made it.

[00:03:16] Thanks, man. It's a mutual feeling.

[00:03:17] Yeah, Tom, you will be considered a brother.

[00:03:19] What do I need to do to be a brother?

[00:03:20] You have to be here at least twice.

[00:03:21] Well, he's going to be my future marriage counselor.

[00:03:25] That is true.

[00:03:26] That is.

[00:03:27] I'm going to ride electric skateboards.

[00:03:29] Yes.

[00:03:30] But I got to bring my one wheel.

[00:03:31] So anyways.

[00:03:32] All right.

[00:03:33] I want Alex.

[00:03:34] Alex is a pro now.

[00:03:37] Alex has been riding.

[00:03:38] I don't fall if that makes me a pro.

[00:03:40] Sure.

[00:03:41] Electric skateboard with me.

[00:03:42] There we go.

[00:03:43] We can have a learning day.

[00:03:44] I'm all about learning.

[00:03:45] Sounds good.

[00:03:46] You know, get some brusses.

[00:03:47] Keep us on track.

[00:03:48] I wanted to leave with this statement, right?

[00:03:50] Because of course podcasting town hall.

[00:03:52] We're going to talk about the state of podcasting.

[00:03:54] So I just Googled this recently.

[00:03:56] So if one of you have a better data point, please feel free to correct me.

[00:04:01] The global podcasting market size was valued at eighteen point five billion dollars in 2022 source Grandview research.

[00:04:11] So I wanted to leave with that because you might hear that and you might say there's a lot of opportunity in there.

[00:04:16] And we have I would argue probably the masters of indie podcast things out here.

[00:04:22] Right.

[00:04:23] I mean, Buzzsprout, they host tons of podcasters.

[00:04:26] I would argue a lot of indie podcasters.

[00:04:29] Alex and Philippe was like he carries the banner of indie podcasters.

[00:04:35] Founder of Podmatch.

[00:04:37] I mean, what else can we ask for?

[00:04:38] So I'm curious, you know, in your opinion on what does eighteen point five billion dollars represents as an opportunity for indie podcasters?

[00:04:47] Whoever wants to take it.

[00:04:48] You can fight each other.

[00:04:49] That's fine.

[00:04:52] Go for it, Alex.

[00:04:53] What do you think?

[00:04:54] Well, the first thing I always like to mention with that is that like that is top line.

[00:04:57] So most of that money is going to a select few.

[00:05:00] Right.

[00:05:01] And I'm not saying that to be discouraging by any means because the bigger that number gets, we as indie podcasters collect kind of like.

[00:05:07] What's left of that.

[00:05:08] Right.

[00:05:09] And so if there's one billion total, then we get a small percentage of that one billion.

[00:05:13] If there's eighteen billion, we get a small percentage of that eighteen billion.

[00:05:16] Right. So it's not just only the top.

[00:05:18] Some people like, well, yeah, Joe Rogan's the world.

[00:05:20] Get that right.

[00:05:21] But the reality is it really does affect each of us and the value not only of podcasters themselves, but the way people view podcasting.

[00:05:31] So because like when I got started, like with my entrepreneurship show, which I thought was like going to put me on the map, it was in 2018, I think.

[00:05:38] And people were like, podcast?

[00:05:40] What?

[00:05:41] And now if you tell an entrepreneur they don't want to be on it, they don't want to listen to it.

[00:05:43] They're still like, oh, wow, that's cool.

[00:05:45] Right.

[00:05:46] And that top line number for many people just gives this perception of like, oh, no, there's some actual there's some value there.

[00:05:50] There's something there.

[00:05:51] So those are kind of my thoughts.

[00:05:52] But, Tom, I'm very interested in hearing yours as well.

[00:05:54] I have a lot of thoughts about it.

[00:05:55] I think it's validating maybe like to see that.

[00:06:00] But imagine I'm going to assign a dollar value to how valuable TV is.

[00:06:05] Right.

[00:06:06] Like, nobody does that.

[00:06:08] There's no industry group that's advocating for a dollar value associated with TV.

[00:06:13] Right.

[00:06:14] So I don't want to take away from the fact that it is validating podcasting by saying it is massively valuable.

[00:06:19] But I would argue that it's more valuable than any independent group could come up with.

[00:06:24] Right.

[00:06:25] What mechanism are they doing to assign that value?

[00:06:27] Whatever mechanism they're using, I think is the lowest form of value, of assigning value to podcasting.

[00:06:35] For example, we live in an industry which loves to tell us that the only way to value your podcast is based on the number of downloads.

[00:06:43] That's just not true.

[00:06:45] That's just not true.

[00:06:46] That's just not true.

[00:06:47] And you will never capture how valuable a podcast is that maybe only has, let's say, whatever, 500 listeners, which is an exceptionally good show.

[00:06:55] It'd be in the top 10 percent of Buzzsprout podcasts.

[00:06:58] Over 100,000 podcasts, you'd be in the top 10 percent of our podcast if you had 500 downloads in your first seven days after launching an episode.

[00:07:05] Well, that's not even going to show up on the radar of those people evaluating it.

[00:07:09] But if that is a consultant who's got a logistics podcast and they're selling consulting services to logistics companies, how do you value a $20,000 contract as a result of one listener who signed a contract?

[00:07:21] So anyways, I don't want to take away from the fact that I think it's awesome that they're assigning value to it.

[00:07:26] I just want to say that I think it's low.

[00:07:29] Whatever that number is, it's going to be low compared to what it really is.

[00:07:33] I love that.

[00:07:34] There's lots of variables, right?

[00:07:36] We're talking about this, and I love what you mentioned here.

[00:07:38] The value is not equal to the downloads.

[00:07:40] Probably not every listener also values the same way for the host.

[00:07:47] So I think that's a very, very clever point out there.

[00:07:50] I'm pretty curious actually on context.

[00:07:56] We had Joe Pulizzi, the founder of Content Marketing Institute come and talk to PubMatch Elite members.

[00:08:05] And he was absolutely fantastic.

[00:08:07] And he mentioned this term content entrepreneurs.

[00:08:11] Of course, at Content is Profit, we talk a lot about probably content regarding content entrepreneurs.

[00:08:18] So I love what you mentioned about this podcast.

[00:08:21] I think it's awesome, but it can be a consultant that has a very small following, but he has so much affinity.

[00:08:27] He has built so much affinity with his audience that now he's able to monetize that.

[00:08:31] And I think that's where the opportunity is for a lot of the smaller podcasters.

[00:08:35] Yeah, I think it's one example of how you could do that.

[00:08:39] What we were just talking about a little while ago was talking about extracting value from your podcast.

[00:08:44] Instead of saying monetization.

[00:08:46] When you hear monetization, you think how do I get dollars out of my podcast, which immediately leads to downloads and CPM.

[00:08:53] But there's so many other ways to get value.

[00:08:56] So you just talked about building an affinity with your listeners.

[00:08:59] It could also be building an authority with your listeners.

[00:09:02] Now I'm an expert because I've got a microphone and I've got a podcast and I'm talking about a topic.

[00:09:07] You can establish yourself as an authority in a specific area.

[00:09:11] But for both yourself and for your guests that you have on your show, you've now built this.

[00:09:17] And so there's so many different ways to extract value that aren't downloads or CPM related.

[00:09:22] I remember when Quentin's Profit started as a Facebook live show.

[00:09:26] We didn't call it a podcast. It was literally a Facebook live show.

[00:09:29] And then that was extracted and put on Buzzsprout actually.

[00:09:33] And that's why we told everybody, hey, you want to come to the show?

[00:09:38] And it was a little bit different.

[00:09:39] And now I'm trying to think, why didn't we use podcasts?

[00:09:42] Maybe because the live show was like the first way of entry.

[00:09:45] But now I think this number represents is also podcast is cool.

[00:09:49] It's more mainstream.

[00:09:50] Now people you go to speak with are like, hey, do you have a podcast?

[00:09:53] Right now it's almost like you must have that vertical on content if you want to be recognized in the industry of some sort.

[00:10:02] Regardless of the downloads, right?

[00:10:03] Because for us, our journey, we've been presented with incredible opportunities and we don't have thousands of thousands of downloads.

[00:10:10] It's like maybe the connection with the network that we've been able to build because of the show, because of the podcast.

[00:10:16] So I think it's like opening the door.

[00:10:19] But it's also maybe casting that shadow to a lot of new podcasters on like, oh, I want a piece of that pie.

[00:10:28] And they ignore completely what you were mentioning about like, what's the hidden revenue behind?

[00:10:32] What's the value that we can?

[00:10:34] Hidden value. I like that hidden value. It's not even hidden money, right?

[00:10:38] We were talking about another example of just I would, for example, I would love to have a Star Wars podcast that was big enough just so that I could meet all the Star Wars people that I want to meet.

[00:10:48] You know, like if I could have Dave Filoni from Star Wars on my podcast, like that would that would I don't care if I ever.

[00:10:57] To be able to sit across the table and have a conversation with people.

[00:10:59] And I know people that they have podcasts that have opened doors for them to have communication with people that otherwise wouldn't have happened.

[00:11:06] There's no dollars exchanging hands directly, but there's value that's being created.

[00:11:12] Yeah, I'm a co-host for hire. Just so you know.

[00:11:15] I'm available and I'm very well versed in Star Wars.

[00:11:18] I can talk about Star Wars. I'm very well versed. I'm ready.

[00:11:21] We'll have a batch poster ready for us.

[00:11:24] We're transitioning right now to the Star Wars segment of the podcast.

[00:11:28] I think we've I think we found a headline.

[00:11:30] All these names.

[00:11:32] I've seen the movies, but honestly, yeah, my memory on that is not the best.

[00:11:35] You guys would be fairly disappointed.

[00:11:37] I got to say, but I think we found the headline for this podcast, the hidden value of podcasting.

[00:11:42] And because it's hidden, it's not going to be reflected in that billion dollar valuation that's being thrown at podcasting.

[00:11:49] There is a hidden value to podcasting that podcasters and guests on podcasts should not miss out on.

[00:11:55] Right. That there's that hidden value.

[00:11:57] Yeah, I think that's actually even more exciting.

[00:11:59] If I was a brand new podcast when I was coming into the industry and I hear that right there's this hidden value and I have somebody clearly explain all of it.

[00:12:07] I'll be so freaking excited.

[00:12:09] I see you pointing out Alex and I see Alex kind of warming up in there.

[00:12:12] What do you what do you think about?

[00:12:14] Well, I was just going to say I think that might be a good way to express what we were talking about.

[00:12:18] Like how do you how do you articulate that?

[00:12:20] It's not just about monetization and maybe maybe that's what that's that's going to be the talk that Alex and I want to give is the hidden value of podcasting.

[00:12:27] Yeah, thanks for inspiring that guy.

[00:12:29] We're totally gonna steal that by the way.

[00:12:31] So I'm coaching right now and I don't do too much too much coaching.

[00:12:34] I always try to stay fresh.

[00:12:35] I always keep two people and I don't charge them one right now.

[00:12:38] Typically it's somebody newer in podcasting but right now one of them happens to be one of the biggest female podcasters in the world.

[00:12:43] Massive podcast and she came to me saying Alex my business is doing really well, but my podcast is costing me money.

[00:12:49] I need to make that hit zero so I can just not have to worry about that not see them in the balance sheet every every month and she's making millions of dollars a year.

[00:12:57] She's doing very well, but not through her podcast.

[00:13:00] So she was asking me how do I find four sponsors to offset all the production?

[00:13:04] And I listened to her podcast before we got on this call.

[00:13:06] I was like hey listen I gotta be real with you.

[00:13:08] I'm like why do you want to do that?

[00:13:10] And she's like oh I don't want you to cost me anything.

[00:13:12] I was like okay but you're not selling your coaching package that she does sell a lot of that starts in five or the six figure range.

[00:13:20] And I'm like why don't you just sell that and just count it as offsetting the cost instead of mudding the waters because she's like I want four ads on every podcast episode.

[00:13:27] I want it to I think it can break even help me figure out who they should be.

[00:13:30] I'm like no ads just an ad for your coaching service or bring them into some sort of funnel that might bring people into it and that would be it.

[00:13:38] And she was like I never really thought of that because she's seeing the size of the industry saying okay well if there's if there's 18 or 19 billion dollars in this thing I surely can get myself 100,000 of it a year to be able to offset all this cost.

[00:13:50] But she was and she admitted she's like I've definitely been limiting the power and the authority the hidden value that I can get through this podcast.

[00:13:57] You highlighted that hidden value and you encouraged her to not go for the short money right?

[00:14:03] Right.

[00:14:05] You're going for the long or the long value which is I want I want people to come into the funnel of understanding my content all my content not just my podcast.

[00:14:13] That's great.

[00:14:14] You know real quick here's the thing on that.

[00:14:16] It's really important if I'm somebody listening that has six figures to spend on a coaching package and you play four ads in a row I'm imagining you're gonna lose me because I don't have time for that right.

[00:14:25] If I have enough money to drop out to drop six figures for you to help me get better at what I'm doing I'm probably not going to listen to those four ads.

[00:14:32] I'll be like this is probably not the podcast for me.

[00:14:33] So you might actually lose six figures by trying to bring in scrape to get that much within a year.

[00:14:39] I mean not only that but like the time and resources that is trying to go find those sponsors trying to control and build a relationship with those sponsors managing like there's a whole set of like a whole business side that is just dedicated to that right.

[00:14:53] So it's not only the money that's bringing in but then also how do we manage that long term as well is that that benefit.

[00:15:00] I mean you can also join a network that can do that for you but then they're going to take like 30 percent of that probably.

[00:15:05] Yeah I'm guessing.

[00:15:06] And you're going to have less control over what they're putting in front of your listeners that you've developed this relationship with.

[00:15:12] Yeah.

[00:15:13] No I have friends and they use Buzzsprout ads and it works really well for them because they don't have a product or service.

[00:15:18] They do the podcast for fun but they wanted to break even with it.

[00:15:21] They're like I'm not trying to make money like I'll make a couple dollars but I just need to offset my costs I can keep this hobby going forever and I respect the purity of a creator with that mindset.

[00:15:29] And so for them I'm like yeah absolutely throw an ad in there.

[00:15:31] Your listeners aren't going to care because they know you're just here having a good time and you want to bring them along with it.

[00:15:35] And that's a case study to say that that like ads aren't all evil and you shouldn't do them.

[00:15:39] But again if you're selling something for six figures sell your stuff right.

[00:15:42] Yeah.

[00:15:43] But if you're just a creator who's passionate having fun wanting to serve people and not looking to turn into your full time job by all means run a good well placed ad that also would be interesting to your listeners.

[00:15:54] Yeah.

[00:15:55] I would love to play with that too right.

[00:15:56] I'd be like hey guys you're going to hear some ads.

[00:15:58] I got to get a new microphone dude.

[00:16:01] It would be fun to kind of play with that of like you might hear an ad and don't I'm going to vet it.

[00:16:07] It's going to be an ad that's you know at least tangentially related to the podcast hopefully right.

[00:16:12] But hey guys give me a break right.

[00:16:14] Like not enough of you are supporting me on Patreon.

[00:16:17] I got to play some ads.

[00:16:18] Speaking of Star Wars do you need a new toothbrush?

[00:16:23] Definitely I'm a believer that honestly like that sells right.

[00:16:27] And it's just not that you're going just again for the dollar amount but if you're trying to build that community sense of people say hey look I'm transparent this is what's going on.

[00:16:37] I'm trying to deliver better content.

[00:16:39] This microphone is about to break down.

[00:16:41] Guess what?

[00:16:42] I'm having an ad right here for you.

[00:16:44] Educating listeners right.

[00:16:46] One of the things that happened I don't know right before the pandemic I feel like there was this awakening to.

[00:16:52] Social media of the impact that it's having on us and it's like wait a minute it's not free.

[00:16:56] You think it's free but it's not free and everyone's like whoa this is blowing my mind.

[00:17:01] We need that realization in podcasting right.

[00:17:04] That if podcasting is free it's not free.

[00:17:07] What's what's the real value exchange that's happening and listeners need to be made aware of that.

[00:17:12] And one of the ways we can do that as podcasters is educating them and saying things like hey just so you know this might be a 30 minute podcast but I spend hours on it.

[00:17:21] Editing it and you know doing all these other things that make the podcast happen.

[00:17:27] And I'm not I'm not complaining about it.

[00:17:29] I just want you to know and you should consider if you get value out of my show you should consider supporting the show right.

[00:17:35] Otherwise I'm going to put mattress ads.

[00:17:37] That's been so interesting with with the studio right because the perspective where people come in and be like oh you know I just want to do let's say 15 20 minute conversation but they show their their references.

[00:17:48] And it might be a highly edited thing with like these sounds and different things.

[00:17:52] We just produced a Fonzie just produced an incredible trailer for a wedding planner right.

[00:17:57] And he has like she's telling this story and there's all these things happening in the background you can actually imagine the story because of the sounds is really an amazing thing.

[00:18:04] And it was like a one off product that we did for her.

[00:18:08] And but he set the bar really high and we had to explain to her be like look every episode if you want it like this is going to be four times as expensive than a regular conversation right.

[00:18:20] And it's like that education side of people trying to come into the world right.

[00:18:24] And and start producing it and we're all about hey put your message or there put you know share it like it's it's your duty if you if you really believe that what you do helps somebody else is your duty to put it out into the world.

[00:18:36] But at the same time we need to be educated like what does it take for us to do this right.

[00:18:41] That's what for example I love both of your platforms right with how much is you get connections right off the bat with people that align with their message and you can make that connection to then continue that hidden value.

[00:18:52] And then with bus for example that's our service of choice here in the studio when we launch a podcast because he's so easy we actually the reason we were able to launch our podcast was because of you guys because we logged in into that website.

[00:19:04] And you made the process so easy to like oh I have to put the title here oh I have to put the description and then upload the MP3 file we have all those.

[00:19:13] And and you have all the support so removing the friction for the app from the actual you know act of publishing it is so big.

[00:19:25] And as a podcast like you guys both mentioned if we help our listeners to understand that and it's the industry is just going to continue to grow.

[00:19:33] I want to pinpoint something that you mentioned here a little bit ago and I think it's a great takeaway for you listening right now which is get people invested.

[00:19:44] And I think it's a great tip especially for indie podcasters as well.

[00:19:47] Let them know the work that you're putting in and this goes this translates beyond podcasting right when you're building a new relationship to like don't be afraid to tell them hey I've actually spent X amount of years you know learning this stuff.

[00:20:02] I've tested it I've had this amount of clients like that is part of your journey.

[00:20:06] That's why it's important also to share your story but you're going to get people invested into you and into listening more so hopefully right that relates to the right people it repelled the wrong people.

[00:20:18] And then you're going to have a higher affinity with the people that stays listening to your podcast.

[00:20:23] Yeah I think one of the things that Alex and I were talking about just a little while ago was this idea of premium content where podcasters are like oh well I don't have premium content.

[00:20:32] You're like all of your content is premium content right.

[00:20:35] Like everything that you're doing you're doing it because you think it's valuable to your listeners.

[00:20:39] And so getting it's almost like we need a confidence builder right.

[00:20:44] We need we need to have a confidence builder and it's hard because you're you know sitting behind a microphone and there's nobody in front of you to tell you how valuable the content is you're creating.

[00:20:52] So it's daunting and it's definitely challenging but we have to have that kind of confidence boost that I was trying to think the SNL the SNL you know you're good enough.

[00:21:02] You're smart like you need to play that before you do like you are producing something valuable if it wasn't then nobody's going to download it right.

[00:21:10] If nobody's engaging with your content then maybe it's not valuable but if they're actually engaging with your content then you have to you have to be confident in that right.

[00:21:18] Like and now it's educating them on I hope you're getting value out of this.

[00:21:21] I want you to know I've been doing this for blah blah blah and this is how I do it and giving some some of that insight you know it can be a fun way to involve your listener.

[00:21:30] You mentioned you know if maybe nobody's engaging with it is not viable.

[00:21:34] I think before that I would actually look at am I actually putting my podcast on my content in front of people right.

[00:21:41] I think a problem is distribution and we tell people this is kind of like our rules like for every hour that you spend creating like spend at least one hour promoting it right.

[00:21:50] I put in it out there in front of people because I feel like a lot have the perception that they are you know I'm gonna sit in front of the microphone I'm going to talk and then people are going to you know hear about it.

[00:22:02] And I think personally one of the best ways to do it is just building those relationships right.

[00:22:07] I remember last you know state of podcasting that we did that you can hear you share one of your best techniques which was get a listener day and you go to this Facebook group you find a specific problem that they have.

[00:22:21] And you're like oh look I actually talk to X Y and Z who solves this exact problem and if you go to my podcast in the minute whatever you're going to find this solution right there and I think that is absolutely genius.

[00:22:34] So I'm curious because somebody might be listening to this and they might be thinking that's a lot of work that's a lot of that's a lot of effort right.

[00:22:41] Welcome to podcasting.

[00:22:42] Right to podcasting so I'm curious what have you seen and that could be one of the downsides and I'm doing air quotes here for those listening but that could be one of the downsides of podcasting right that it actually requires a lot of resources.

[00:22:55] What other challenges have you seen especially working with a lot of people that are coming into the pod match world.

[00:23:01] First off like what has ever yielded a meaningful result to you that didn't require work right.

[00:23:07] Like what in life has ever been like well one day I showed up to work and I got bonuses every day for the rest of my career there's like no you had to show up and you had to work really hard if you were going to get noticed to get promoted to get bonuses like right.

[00:23:18] And it's not any different with content creation you've got to be willing to actually put in some real work and unfortunately where any sort of like real content creation comes in like if you're doing video audio even written content anything like that.

[00:23:30] Like you have to put your feet to the ground after that you can't just build it and they will come like that.

[00:23:35] That doesn't really work and we all kind of want that viral I guess opportunity to show up or just like everyone just found it the stars aligned and it got there but the reality is it's just that's very few people's experience in anything online right.

[00:23:48] Especially with how many people are there that like it's harder to find even though it's easier to find right.

[00:23:53] There's so much there but I think that for me with going out and reaching out to one person every day it's it takes a lot of time the first time I do it.

[00:24:00] But after that be able to identify you know what in my podcast is about podcasting so when someone's always saying I wish there were some other ways to monetize my podcast.

[00:24:08] I now have just built a text expander it's a little code. I'm not rewriting it every time I'm basically being like oh man I hear you like that that can be really tough.

[00:24:15] I did put together a list of 16 and I've got a couple of them on this podcast episode if you'd be curious to hear it.

[00:24:20] All I do is type in three little letters and it's there and so for me that day was me clicking the link that I've already saved where people are typing in that type of search.

[00:24:28] It shows up I literally type in three letters hit send and I connected somebody that day I'm done.

[00:24:34] Systems and processes.

[00:24:36] Right exactly and so yeah the first time it takes a little bit of time but my thing is people are like oh man but one a day.

[00:24:40] Dude after 365 days based off the data that you're sharing I'm already close to like that's probably put me top 15 percentile right or something like that of all podcasters.

[00:24:48] I'm like so do it for two years now I'm in the top 10 percent.

[00:24:50] People are doing that.

[00:24:52] They also stay they recommend other people they're like hey you should listen to this this guy was super helpful.

[00:24:56] You're right because they met me they're like hey I actually the host himself sent me this like they're probably going to be more likely to share as well.

[00:25:02] So yeah it has it has a tail as well it continues to go.

[00:25:05] This is I'd be interested to hear what percentage you guys assign to this concept.

[00:25:12] So I was just at podfest what in January and I was talking to somebody and she was saying how much she loves podcasting like got into podcasting I love it but I kind of feel like you know I got bamboozled because I was I had this vision of being behind the microphone and talking about this topic that I love.

[00:25:29] And really that's about 10 percent of my time 90 percent of my time is doing all these other things that nobody talked about.

[00:25:36] Nobody told me about these other things and it was good for us for Buzzsprout because we're always thinking about that 90 percent and how can we shrink it.

[00:25:43] How can I make it so that you spend less time so that co-host AIs are AI that gives you title recommendations and descriptions not to do it for you but to hopefully shrink how much time you're spending outside of that recording.

[00:25:56] But anyways we were having this conversation and she put it at like 90 10.

[00:26:00] What number would you put in terms of time behind the microphone versus time not buying the microphone where you're actually working on your podcast.

[00:26:08] That's that's a really good question.

[00:26:10] I think first I'm going to lead with is your own decision right.

[00:26:14] And it goes back to when we first launched the show right.

[00:26:17] So we actually had a show before called Bruise and Bros and it was me and Fonzie talking marketing or documenting the things that we're doing at the time in his room.

[00:26:25] I'm like the setup will take an hour because it was his room.

[00:26:28] We have to move the bed put the lights like and then dismounted all because he was living there right.

[00:26:33] I had to sleep so.

[00:26:36] And then we call that the porn set.

[00:26:39] My girlfriend would come in and she's like is this a podcast.

[00:26:42] Are you sure.

[00:26:43] I promise I promise.

[00:26:45] Yeah.

[00:26:46] 2 a.m. and you know they were like you guys still recording.

[00:26:48] We're like yeah.

[00:26:49] And it's like two cameras and then we had the wrong cameras right because they were they had 20 minute timers.

[00:26:53] We had to get up and click it again.

[00:26:55] And this was all before.

[00:26:56] Talk about friction.

[00:26:57] And then we'll do the content.

[00:26:58] And then after that we're like oh we now have to download the files and edit the files and we're like what.

[00:27:03] After five of those we're like nope equipment to the closet and we waited a full year to then launch contains profit.

[00:27:10] And when we launched contains profit the decision was let's make it as easy as possible so we can actually connect or talk about what we wanted to talk.

[00:27:17] And then almost with like two clicks is published.

[00:27:20] So the decision was there's not going to be a ton of post editing.

[00:27:23] We're just going to grab the audio that is recorded from the live conversation and that's what goes out.

[00:27:28] And then what happens was it removed the friction from what are we doing.

[00:27:31] What are we talking about today.

[00:27:33] So if it was a solo episode it's like what do we learn today.

[00:27:36] What do we learn this week.

[00:27:37] Let's talk about it and give our opinion.

[00:27:39] That was the decision.

[00:27:40] Then we're going to start bringing people on.

[00:27:42] Do we do a ton of research on them.

[00:27:44] No probably just going to listen to an episode of you know what they did or what they sent us in the form and we're going to go off the cuff curiosity based 100 percent to this day that stays like that.

[00:27:53] And then so there's not a ton of like crazy research and we also knew who we wanted to talk to.

[00:27:57] So we kind of knew a little bit about it.

[00:27:59] Then the show is like our one hour let's spend together.

[00:28:02] Let's have this conversation truly enjoyable.

[00:28:04] And then the post production was the same thing.

[00:28:06] We're like we literally grab the file from here to the computer uploaded to bus route right.

[00:28:10] And then in the session we will come up with ideas on you know you guys see us typing here now that's what's going to that's what's happening.

[00:28:16] We're trying to figure out like what is the hook of the episode and then that's the thing.

[00:28:20] So post production was really tiny and then obviously comes with distribution.

[00:28:23] So we had those six levers which was a presentation that we talked about.

[00:28:27] You know and then and then got promotion right because now I'm going to go and I'm going to talk exactly.

[00:28:33] Exactly. So the rule is like OK if we spend one hour I mean all the pre production was like the time on you know inviting the person and then setting it up.

[00:28:41] And like you said it takes time the first time but afterwards it's just the same link that gets sent out every single time.

[00:28:46] So it doesn't spend too much time but it's like it was spent one hour creating well when the episode is out can we book that one hour and send it to them.

[00:28:53] Publishing on social media X Y Z like what are the distribution methods that you have.

[00:28:57] So two hours three hours stops and then that allowed us to do three episodes a week for a long period of time.

[00:29:02] Now we're I think this is five hundred something episode which is crazy.

[00:29:06] I haven't done you know besides soccer when you're not there on that plate just saying a word.

[00:29:12] Yeah we'll get you there.

[00:29:14] So again I think it comes up to you right like if you're somebody as a perfectionist like Fonzie you spend four days editing one episode right.

[00:29:21] If you are like frictionless like me I'll be like no editing bro it goes out that way and I'm comfortable that way.

[00:29:26] So like I asked you the audience like are you what are you comfortable with right.

[00:29:31] And then put something out learn from that and then you might vary those levers a little bit with like oh we need a little more distribution.

[00:29:38] Let's invest more time in there.

[00:29:40] I need more production can we invest resources or editors in it or can I edit right.

[00:29:45] And then you can start playing with that.

[00:29:46] And then thinking about long term goals works too right.

[00:29:49] If somebody sure they want to grow but they don't mind growing very slowly in a period of I don't know five years they might be able to spend more time behind the mic you know just talking and talking and talking and not promoting as much.

[00:30:02] But if the goal is to grow the podcast maybe find different ways of revenue right.

[00:30:06] We had that find the hidden value of listeners that can potentially become some of your customers.

[00:30:12] Then you might have to go out there and spend a lot of time promoting your podcast and not as much time behind the microphone sharing your expertise.

[00:30:22] For me I was talking to a to a podcaster and they talked about that they do a lot of editing and I was like oh I know you have the they like had I knew they were bringing a little bit income let's put it that way so I was like hey you can totally outsource it outsources

[00:30:35] like that's actually my favorite part. I was like oh interesting.

[00:30:38] And so like we're not saying to anyone who's checking this out today that like you need to stop editing or you need to stop posting on social media and outsource all this stuff right because Tom you and I talked about that like a lot of people like podcasting coaches traditional ones like outsource all of it right.

[00:30:52] I'm like that doesn't work for everybody right. Like there's there's money involved when you do that. But the reality is this person really liked it so I was talking like oh why don't you edit a few other people's podcast too and like oh that's a good idea because that's their favorite part.

[00:31:01] So now I think the edits they they just surpassed 10 podcasts that they're editing. So I think they started working with an agency so they're like it's not even their own company. They're just doing what they love and now it's their job and they just have their podcast as well.

[00:31:11] So I'm like man so there's no like one size fits all that we all just love this right behind the mic sharing at 10 percent for some people might be the other elements of it and some people just are very curious and want to learn all of it which again there's nothing wrong with but I do agree with doing your best to remove the friction points.

[00:31:27] And I always say do what you can with excellence. So an example like if you hate Instagram then just don't post Instagram. Yeah you're right. Like if you can outsource it great but like if you're just like absolutely despise it like don't let that be what ruins your podcasting experience because that isn't podcasting.

[00:31:44] The only thing you have to do to podcast is talk into a microphone hit record and post it somewhere right. I'm not saying don't do the rest skip it all right. But if you truly hate it it's going to make you stop doing this the actual recording then stop doing the thing that's keeping you away from it.

[00:31:56] Yeah we have a resource for that right. The publishing pyramid I'm going to plug it in here if you guys are curious about it make sure you send us a message. Right. Hey Fonzie I want the publishing pyramid will send it to you and you know and there will discuss all about messaging consistency capacity and resources and how to manage that so you can spend time doing whatever it is that you love.

[00:32:16] That's a really good question man and I think you know part of that is the education gap right in the industry. A lot of people going to this you'd say hey let's do the Star Wars.

[00:32:24] Yeah the education gap is really what struck me was it when she got into podcasting she wasn't aware that there were all these other functions right. The editing the sharing on social media the promoting the thinking through the spending time getting a guest right.

[00:32:39] There's all this friction that there are ways around it. There are ways to alleviate that but she didn't even know it existed so she just thought yeah I'm just going to talk behind a microphone.

[00:32:48] Yeah can tell you the amount of people that has walked into the studio and said I want to be like insert really big podcast right. Like let's say I want to be you know I was going to be like Joe Brogan I was like alright do you got 10 years right.

[00:33:02] 10 years and loads of resources because that's that's gonna what it's going to take and it doesn't necessarily you know promise you that you're going to be all the way up there.

[00:33:11] So I always remember this conversation we had with a real estate person from Orlando and they the initial call that we had with them she's like I want to be the Mr. Beast of real estate.

[00:33:21] I'm like how long have you been creating content and I think it was like just a couple months. I'm like are you willing to give houses away to people and they're like no.

[00:33:30] Have you seen Mr. Beast content lately and that was like the stage where he was just giving away a bunch of stuff and and it's also perspective right at the end of the day different people different markets like why can't we do and I think it's you know when one of the biggest like moments in my professional career has when my coach told me do a time study.

[00:33:50] What are you spending time on right. That's good yeah and it opened my eyes to many things and as a content you know I think we need to do a content audit on like what are we spending the time in like what do I actually like to do what I don't like to do and then base off of that initially because we're the ones producing or doing it or creating it.

[00:34:08] Then you can decide where to go like you say like do what you do with excellence right and you know once you decide okay podcast is the vehicle great like for us we tried Facebook live we tried YouTube vlogs we tried.

[00:34:20] All types of content or schedule content not schedule content and then we found in podcasting the way that we enjoy creating because we love having these conversations and that's what helped us stay consistent right so I think like that audit initially maybe podcast is not the vehicle for you.

[00:34:35] The audit that I love that idea of going and looking through how you're spending your time and one thing that we've been talking about in our office just in general the way that we work is assigning red or green to the things that you're doing.

[00:34:48] Red are the things that suck the life out of you and green are the things that give you life and trying to balance it out make sure that there's enough green activities in your in your work because otherwise if everything you're doing is red you're just going to burn out and I think podcasting is too hard for people to.

[00:35:05] To live in that place of only doing red things so I love the idea of doing an audit and then assigning a red or green to it and if it's red look for ways around it right that's where something like pod match if you don't like finding the guests and organizing all that.

[00:35:17] If you don't like all the editing of the audio then Buzzsprout has magic mastering to normalize all your audio and things like that but figuring out what are the things that are red and then try to find ways to minimize it you're going to there's going to be some part of your of your work that's going to be red.

[00:35:35] You want to make sure there's enough green so that you it's sustainable for the long term because nobody gets into podcasting to flame out we get into by gas and we want to do it in the long term.

[00:35:42] Energy management I actually remember listening to how I met what was the podcast how to conquer the world how to conquer the world it's a really good podcast about biographies totally recommend that if you guys haven't listened to it and they did an episode about Edison and I remember the whole sharing you know something that I found in common between Edison Napoleon all the big figures that he had and he was like you know what I'm going to do is I'm going to do this.

[00:36:12] The thing that I found in the podcast portrayed on the podcast is that they all had great amount of energy is not that they were geniuses they just had a lot of energy and what you're doing you know balance it then green and the red.

[00:36:26] I think it's key especially nowadays right like where we you know there's a there is a message some people have the message of you know the hustle culture just go 24 7 grind yeah just grand like it is not real some people might be able to do it right some people might have the energy but it gets to a point where you need to start balancing other things in your life.

[00:36:42] Right and I love the concept of Jesse Isler I don't know if you guys are familiar with him but he has he called it the big ass calendar right and so Jesse is very big entrepreneur he sold companies to Coca-Cola to Warren Buffett and now he has this concept of the big ass calendar.

[00:36:59] First thing he does in his year is what is this big rock that I'm going to put on my my year he called them me soggy what is this big event that I'm going to put on my year that is going to fuel me for the rest of the year then he goes in and he adds what he's going to do with his family all these events and then he goes and he adds the work stuff that he has right again.

[00:37:19] He is at a privilege spotting his life obviously you know financially where he can have the time to do a lot of other things but I think boiling down the concept to the day-to-day you know podcast you're an entrepreneur is look at it as okay how can I prioritize my green activities and then I can include the red ones in there so I can keep my energy high and perform you know at the highest.

[00:37:43] Yeah there's sometimes so for myself as I've gone through it there's some activities that I do that are green that aren't necessarily the most valuable use of my time right like as somebody who's running a business there's other things that would be more valuable than for example me writing code but I love writing code and it's green for me and so what I'll do is I'm looking at a day that's stacked with red I'm going to throw in there writing some code because even though it's not the best use of my time even though it violates the you know

[00:38:13] Stephen Covey important urgent right even though it kind of violates that I'm gonna do it because of energy management it's like I want at the end of the day I don't want to feel like I just barely made it through the day I want to feel like oh I did something today and even if I go and I write code even though somebody else could do it maybe they could even do it better it's still worth it for me to do for that energy. Yeah yeah but I think finding your own how it boils down to what is your own how a lot of people will sell you this is the only

[00:38:43] way you can do things but at the end of the day you gotta look inside of yourself get to know yourself what are your values what are your goals and then find your own how. What are your red and green activities Alex?

[00:38:56] Some of them. So this topic I'm not gonna I want to bring it back to podcasting yeah like like time management energy management is like my big thing and it will take us off podcast so I'm gonna bring it back so for me I every 90 days evaluate everything I do in my life and work everything I write it all down and I give it three different distinctions.

[00:39:13] Automate delegate eliminate everything goes through automate delegate eliminate and to bring it back to podcasting one of the things that I realized I was spending my time doing was about 12 minutes a day when I tracked it was setting up and breaking down my studio which is also my office and so I was like how do I what can I do with this that 12 how can I reclaim that 12 minutes a day which isn't much but 12 minutes turns out to be something I hate it's always like I'm trying to turn on this freaking light you know like it was always that and so I was like okay it's not software I can't really automate this I could delegate it but that would be absolutely absurd

[00:39:43] have someone show up and like set this up for me so how do I eliminate it so I used to have like a roll down back wall which instead I took that off and painted the wall now I don't have to roll that up and down anymore the lights I put them all in a certain spot where they're more out of the way so I don't have to move them anymore I got basically a switcher that turns everything on by pushing a button and now I save that 12 minutes a day so what I did is I just eliminated it completely yeah so that was one of the things in podcasting I was like oh man I always forget something I start recording and realize I'm missing a light or I didn't turn my microphone and now it's just all always

[00:40:13] set up so I was able to eliminate that so in 90 days when I go back and look at the list that's no longer something on it and so that's kind of how I evaluate everything automate delegate eliminate or my three things every 90 days I take inventory of everything my life and run it through those dispositions yeah I really like that there's actually studies being done about the time that it takes for you to not want to do something and I think it's like about two minutes right so it's like right and this is mostly to break down like bad habits it's like can you you know make something wait two minutes

[00:40:43] and then you might change your opinion about it right so for example I'm kind of like a junkie with a trying to learn about productivity so it's funny because I'm not productive because I'm looking at videos about productivity that's half of the deal right but it would be a matter of okay how can I make logging into YouTube difficult right the process putting it away for like two minutes or now I have an app that blocks all my all my apps or you know for hours but it also goes back the concept of podcasting when we first started that we had that set in my room that was

[00:41:13] awful took us like an hour to set up when we started counting this profit and we had a different office right here like two buildings down what we did was let's pick a corner it's a tiny office but we're gonna have a corner that is a podcasting corner we're gonna have the mics set up all the time the only thing that we have to do is plug the computer and that's it and you remove so much of the friction so much of the oh I have to go set up I have to do X Y and Z even before I get started and that is such a crusher tip I like it I think

[00:41:43] the take the actionable spot the delegate or eliminate I'm gonna need that written down because we're gonna we're gonna use our I really think this is a great conversation to have about podcasting because we see so many people that get into podcasting and then burn out right and so I think it really is it's an important conversation I love it because we talked about the hidden value of podcasting massively important for podcasters we talked about energy management I think that's massive massively important for podcasters because if they don't manage their

[00:42:13] energy they're gonna burn out they're gonna get to that place where they just don't want to do it anymore and I used to love this thing but now I hate it why do I hate it I don't even know and so I really I think it's totally relevant to the to the conversation

[00:42:25] yeah yeah but podcast are not really just podcasters right we can maybe business owners so we have we have families we have other stuff going on in our lives so they just stood behind the mic waiting for the next time to talk in the studio you know when this is over it lights out

[00:42:40] but guys it has been such a cool conversation

[00:42:44] wait I have one last question for Alex here because you were talking about burnout and I know that's one of your big missions now with podmatch so why don't you share a little bit about that

[00:42:53] yeah thanks I mean the I hate that it happens but I love talking about the topic because it's not hard to fix that's the thing you just have to set yourself up for success and right now the data shows that over 50 percent of people quit before reaching 8 episodes

[00:43:05] It's because people have this perception of like, oh, I'm gonna hit record and it's gonna get out there and everyone's gonna see it

[00:43:10] And then you realize okay podcasting this what we're doing right now is 10% of the job, right?

[00:43:14] And there's a 90% that you might not find fun

[00:43:18] And so for me, it's all around education of you can't expect the result too fast

[00:43:22] And that's where the biggest education problem

[00:43:24] I think comes into play but like just hit record start today and then you do that a few times you realize

[00:43:30] Okay, there's all this extra work. Fine. I'll do it. Oh, but no one's here and it's like, okay

[00:43:34] So should I just stop and people get burnt out because they're not saying they're doing more work than they need to because they're just

[00:43:38] Following with the what someone tells them to do right?

[00:43:41] Yeah, and that might be someone's year five or ten doing this and they've added everything to it at this point

[00:43:45] But also they're not thinking about like okay

[00:43:47] Like it's gonna take time to build an audience everything like that takes time and I always use Jerry Rice is my example great NFL

[00:43:53] Receiver right one of the greatest of all time the first 18 years of his life

[00:43:56] You best believe he was working extremely hard to get to the NFL but no one knew who he was

[00:44:00] Right and finally it turned and eventually we all get to that point where like that jay curve if you will right like

[00:44:06] It's gonna it's gonna cost you a little bit upfront of time of energy even finances, right?

[00:44:10] But it will be worth if you stick with it

[00:44:12] But some people just can't stay consistent because they've not been told that like hey, this is how this works

[00:44:17] Right. And so we watch somebody else and we get this idea of like it's working for them

[00:44:21] Why is it not working for me?

[00:44:22] And so I think that that's a really important element to talk about cuz again

[00:44:25] Like I hate that 50% of independent podcasters quit before getting any form of meaningful experience in it at all

[00:44:30] right or like any result at all and

[00:44:32] So I'm really passionate to try to find those podcasters before they hit that day because I find it just takes one

[00:44:38] Person to get in there and say hey, let's let's focus this thing in I'm not there trying to make money

[00:44:42] It's funny cuz like my product pod match whenever someone's like what's your angle?

[00:44:46] Like you're just trying to make money off of me. I'm like literally if you stay with me for a year

[00:44:49] You're going to make like $300. I will lose that $300 like like I don't make money from podcasters

[00:44:54] That's not where I make my money, right?

[00:44:55] But I'm here to serve you and so like it makes it really easy for me to kind of jump in because I

[00:44:59] Feel like hey, I really am here to help because there's I'm gonna be a partner of yours along the way

[00:45:03] So I just want to see more independent podcasters make it because I find that that's some of those powerful content

[00:45:08] I've heard that I'm not dogging on the big shows and stuff

[00:45:11] But most of the content that's really been inspiring changed my life is a podcast

[00:45:14] I can't remember the name of right now and is a guest

[00:45:17] I can't remember the name of right now

[00:45:18] but it was two people really passionate to serve showing up and getting that content out there that eventually led to me finding it and

[00:45:24] Changing my life. Yeah

[00:45:25] We I mean we had this conversation at dinner right like the all the experts right expert on this expert on that

[00:45:32] different points of view they're both experts really are the experts right and

[00:45:36] like you the

[00:45:39] Independent podcast is what I also find very enjoyable right because it's maybe a personal

[00:45:44] way like a personal lens on their life from their experiences and

[00:45:49] You it is more meaningful to me personally and that's what really inspired me to me was

[00:45:55] This podcast from it was actually a radio show that then they turn into podcasts

[00:45:59] But it's a bunch of comedians in Venezuela is the professor briseño like the briseño professor, right?

[00:46:04] And it was just him documenting a bunch of stuff that was happening in the country and putting their

[00:46:09] Humor behind it and our show had music and you know when we just joined up with some music in there

[00:46:13] it's because that was

[00:46:19] The Street Fighter sounds like the hadouki and they were like make these jokes and stuff and that's inspiration for us to get

[00:46:25] Started in this that changed our life right so I think it's super important if you're listening your

[00:46:31] Independent podcaster or content creator go ahead

[00:46:34] You know you know fall hopefully this was helpful today

[00:46:37] But you know go to bus brought started the show there or transfer the show there because it's always

[00:46:47] I'm going to putt my job is that you know cuz like they have so so many incredible resources for you to stay

[00:46:52] Consistent move forward so guys like I'm truly an honor to have you guys both in this room

[00:46:57] This is gonna be an episode for for the ages any any last you know ideas or thoughts or advice that you guys want to share

[00:47:06] Thanks for having us

[00:47:07] I'll go with that but real quick mad one more thing as well. Thank you for having us for sure just

[00:47:12] If you're creating something remember that it does serve somebody and yeah

[00:47:15] There's a lot of work that goes into it

[00:47:16] But sometimes work is required to really change somebody's life

[00:47:19] And I don't mean to like make it sound more intense than it should be but like really your content might be the humor somebody

[00:47:24] Needs the education they need just the voice that finally lets them understand something they never understood so it's it's worth it

[00:47:30] You know if there's a cost again time energy finances whatever it might be it's still worth it

[00:47:35] And so I always encourage you will keep on going don't give up because you don't know who it's helping

[00:47:38] Who's just a listening ear put a dollar value on that right back to where we started put a dollar value on

[00:47:44] Both of you guys shared a story that your life was the trajectory of your life was

[00:47:47] Impacted by listening to a podcast yeah, that's not captured in the how many ever billions of dollars

[00:47:53] They assign to the value of podcasting

[00:47:56] So yeah

[00:47:57] Don't downplay the impact that you can have in people's lives most people that are in podcasting are in it because there's something

[00:48:02] They're passionate about there's some topic that they think could impact people's lives

[00:48:11] About you guys, but I feel the motivation the passion right now

[00:48:14] You know seeping from this to right here, I absolutely love it. Thank you guys for being here

[00:48:23] So much for tuning to the contents prophet podcast going to follow the show in your favorite podcasting platform

[00:48:28] I know social media at this bros co that is ran if you feel you are one step closer towards your goal

[00:48:33] Please don't forget to share this episode and and don't forget to leave a five-star review. See ya guys

[00:48:40] Don't forget to follow these two as well

[00:48:42] Things in the description